Originally posted by exigentsky4...Nc6 and 5... Qb6 is what I play. It's the main line afaik. 4... Qb6 followed by 5...Bd7 and 6... Bb5 is good too, swapping off the light squared bishop. It's a hard line to play against as White. I actually stopped playing the advance as White against the French because of it.
I don't often face it(usually get the exchange 😀), but I'm not sure what the best move is when I do. What should my fourth move be? I'm undecided between Qb6, Nc6 and Bd7. They all seem so logical in their own way. What do you guys think?
[fen]rnbqkbnr/pp3ppp/4p3/2ppP3/3P4/2P5/PP3PPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - 0 4[/fen]
OK, let's say I play Nc6, since it's the most popular and also very logical. Now Nf3, reaching this
position:
Black to move.
Can you explain in some detail the pros and cons of the main black moves? I'm still not sure what to play. (although Qb6 like you said sounds pretty good)
Originally posted by exigentskyQb6 is mainline as it pressures d4 and b2. I personally prefer Bd7 as it almost always goes there anyway. I can then play either an f6 break or Qb6 in the moves afterworlds (usually I prefer Ng-e7-g6/f5) but it's all personal preference (I score better with Bd7 than Qb6). I do believe that 4. Bd7 is quite playable as well and worth looking into.
OK, let's say I play Nc6, since it's the most popular and also very logical. Now Nf3, reaching this
position:
[fen]r1bqkbnr/pp3ppp/2n1p3/2ppP3/3P4/2P2N2/PP3PPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 5[/fen]
Black to move.
Can you explain in some detail the pros and cons of the main black moves? I'm still not sure what to play. (although Qb6 like you said sounds pretty good)
Originally posted by exigentskyQb6 is my prefered move here too, I really like getting into the advance variation because of this line, I just enjoy some of the positions that come up. Bd7 is the other popular move.
OK, let's say I play Nc6, since it's the most popular and also very logical. Now Nf3, reaching this
position:
[fen]r1bqkbnr/pp3ppp/2n1p3/2ppP3/3P4/2P2N2/PP3PPP/RNBQKB1R b KQkq - 0 5[/fen]
Black to move.
Can you explain in some detail the pros and cons of the main black moves? I'm still not sure what to play. (although Qb6 like you said sounds pretty good)
Bd7 is all about flexibility, it sees more action at the master/GM level than it does down here with us I think. It prepares the common f pawn advance earlier, develops your bishop to the spot it basically almost always ends up going to, and is kind of a waiting move I think, waiting for your opponent to decide which way to go before you commit to where to develop your queen and where to attack the pawns.
Qb6 is an aggresive move, attacking the center now and not waiting for your opponent. Don't get me wrong, both lines are quite good (another reason to love the French), but I just like this one better and against players at our level, I've found a lot of them tend to eventually mess up and let you win back the center easier than they ought to, making it a good choice down here where defense isn't perfect. And putting white on the defense is fun. GMs use it too, though, so it certainly isn't unsound in any way, and may or may not be the best line. Frequently you'll nab the d4 pawn early and then just end up fighting for the isolated or not e5 pawn.
Originally posted by exigentskyYou seem to be spending a lot of time studying French lines, so the question is, what the hell do you do after 1.d4!? 😛
I don't often face it(usually get the exchange 😀), but I'm not sure what the best move is when I do. What should my fourth move be? I'm undecided between Qb6, Nc6 and Bd7. They all seem so logical in their own way. What do you guys think?
[fen]rnbqkbnr/pp3ppp/4p3/2ppP3/3P4/2P5/PP3PPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - 0 4[/fen]
Originally posted by cmsMaster1. d4 e6! then either white plays the "objectively best" move 2. e4 and you're back in the beloved french defense or he plays 2. c4 when you can play d5 for a QGD or Nf6 for an indian defense or f5 for a dutch. There are so many good options it hurts. White must be in trouble after the excellent move 1... e6 😀
You seem to be spending a lot of time studying French lines, so the question is, what the hell do you do after 1.d4!? 😛
Regarding the Bd7 line, check out this game that I just finished.
Game 3295377
I followed the plan Watson laid out in his French book. You can see where White had significant pressure on my kingside, but couldn't break through. I haven't analyzed the game, so I'm not sure where the true errors were, but I felt I kinda drifted in the middle game, but I rebounded in the endgame.
I like the Bd7 line since most people never played it, and it can be very complex, so you have excellent winning chances (provided you are the better player). 🙂
Qb6 is the traditional reply. Direct pressure on the d4 pawn. Bd7 hits the e5 pawn chain with f6, but can easily transpose. Both are equally respectable.
shakes head....
Guys, if you want some entertainment tonight. Get your favorite chess engine, and go over the game I just posted. I am speechless. I think White had 15 chances to win the game, Black maybe 5 or so, and many drawing chances. The game is complex, which explains most of the errors, but still...
Ending position is a good laugh 😀
That missed 7.00 pawn advantage is also funny 🙂
Thanks a lot for all the information. However, I'm a bit surprised no one cares for Ne7. I will start with Bd7 because it seems to be all the rage at the GM level. 🙂 Plus, I used an engine and looked through databases and it seems like Black has a pretty good game after 6. Be2 Ne7 7. O-O Ng6. However, I will also look at Qb6 more. Both seem solid and interesting.
Try playing f6, although its not as popular, it's only a weakness if your opponent can take advantage of a king side weakness. It immediately throws your opponent off his game. I've used it occasionally during blitz and throws most opening preparation out the window. It really changes the dynamics of the game from normal french openings as white must decide if he wants to take and allow black to develop his knight at the expense of a king side weakness, or to develop and after the pawn exchange creates a new point of attack and defense.
Originally posted by exigentskyBesides Ng6, Nf5 is also an interesting game.
Thanks a lot for all the information. However, I'm a bit surprised no one cares for Ne7. I will start with Bd7 because it seems to be all the rage at the GM level. 🙂 Plus, I used an engine and looked through databases and it seems like Black has a pretty good game after 6. Be2 Ne7 7. O-O Ng6. However, I will also look at Qb6 more. Both seem solid and interesting.