Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Only Chess Forum

Only Chess Forum

  1. 12 Aug '12 18:53
    ChessBase complaing about the lack of fighting games in the men's event.
    (80% draws so far) proudly state:

    "Thank goodness for the women though, whose tournament may lack the Elo
    power their male counterparts bear, but whose competitiveness should serve as
    an example."

    An example of the female "competitiveness".

    Nadezhda Kosintseva (2524) - Tatiana Kosintseva (2530) Russian Champs. 2012.

    I wonder if they will bring out a book of these games.
    Does anybody have an exact figure the number of times this game has
    played between these two. This is the 2nd time in as many months this year.
    Off hand I coming up with 7 times in serious competition.

  2. 12 Aug '12 19:05
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    ChessBase complaing about the lack of fighting games in the men's event.
    (80% draws so far) proudly state:

    "Thank goodness for the women though, whose tournament may lack the Elo
    power their male counterparts bear, but whose competitiveness should serve as
    an example."

    An example of the female "competitiveness".

    Nadezhda Kosintseva ( ...[text shortened]... 4 hxg4 9. Nxe5 Bd6 10. Nxd3 Bh2+ 11. Kh1 Bg3+ 12. Kg1 Bh2+ 13. Kh1 Bg3+ 14. Kg1 Bh2+ [/pgn]
    They have solved chess! Everyone goes to the tourn, plays this game out, and shares first prize! They would even share one heck of a trophy with everyone's name on it.
  3. 12 Aug '12 23:35
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    ChessBase complaing about the lack of fighting games in the men's event.
    (80% draws so far) proudly state:

    "Thank goodness for the women though, whose tournament may lack the Elo
    power their male counterparts bear, but whose competitiveness should serve as
    an example."

    An example of the female "competitiveness".

    Nadezhda Kosintseva ( ...[text shortened]... 4 hxg4 9. Nxe5 Bd6 10. Nxd3 Bh2+ 11. Kh1 Bg3+ 12. Kg1 Bh2+ 13. Kh1 Bg3+ 14. Kg1 Bh2+ [/pgn]
    If the Kosintseva sisters had been in the 2012 Olympic badminton event should
    they have been disqualified for not making a sincere effort to play a 'real' game?
  4. 12 Aug '12 23:46
    Hi Duchess,

    Possibly, as well as the men.

    This is now a running joke in the chess world, it's possibly a stance
    against other pre-arranged draws.
    At least we never see a case of one sister rolling over to let the other
    sister win thus giving her a free point.
    Instead both girls get an extra rest day. 🙂
  5. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    13 Aug '12 00:56
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Hi Duchess,

    Possibly, as well as the men.

    This is now a running joke in the chess world, it's possibly a stance
    against other pre-arranged draws.
    At least we never see a case of one sister rolling over to let the other
    sister win thus giving her a free point.
    Instead both girls get an extra rest day. 🙂
    Given that there will always be someone accusing malfeasance in the case of a decisive result between siblings, their draws may be the way they think they can minimize the amount of grief they receive.
  6. 13 Aug '12 02:46
    The idea that women play more fighting chess than men is preposterous. If you look at open tournaments where the participants are the same rating as the top women, the draw rates are pretty much exactly equal.
  7. 13 Aug '12 13:03
    Hi Paul.

    That is what I am thinking as well.

    I'm not having a serious dig at them, it's ChessBorg I'm having fun with.

    They claim the women are producing more fighting chess and then have this
    game in their argument.
  8. 13 Aug '12 15:51 / 1 edit
    Fourteen times according to chessgames.com:
    http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?player=+Kosintseva+&pid2=&player2=+Kosintseva+

    Edit: Actually I can see at least three duplicates in that list.
  9. Subscriber thaughbaer
    Duckfinder General
    13 Aug '12 19:00
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    If the Kosintseva sisters had been in the 2012 Olympic badminton event should
    they have been disqualified for not making a sincere effort to play a 'real' game?
    I think security may well have escorted them out before they could setup the table and board on the badminton court.
  10. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    13 Aug '12 19:35 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    ChessBase complaing about the lack of fighting games in the men's event.
    (80% draws so far) proudly state:

    "Thank goodness for the women though, whose tournament may lack the Elo
    power their male counterparts bear, but whose competitiveness should serve as
    an example."

    An example of the female "competitiveness".

    Nadezhda Kosintseva ( ...[text shortened]... 4 hxg4 9. Nxe5 Bd6 10. Nxd3 Bh2+ 11. Kh1 Bg3+ 12. Kg1 Bh2+ 13. Kh1 Bg3+ 14. Kg1 Bh2+ [/pgn]
    This should not be a draw.
    White is clearly winning!





    EDIT: Whoops ... wrong thread.
  11. 13 Aug '12 19:45 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    Given that there will always be someone accusing malfeasance in the case of a decisive result between siblings, their draws may be the way they think they can minimize the amount of grief they receive.
    That would depend on the nature of the relationship between the siblings.
    If Olivia de Havilland and Joan Fontaine (two sisters who loathe each other)
    competed against each other, the last thing about which each actress would
    care would be how much pain the other would receive.

    I doubt that anyone would expect the Klitschko brothers both to do their utmost
    to fight each other in a boxing match. And if that match were to take place, I
    suspect that many people would assume that the outcome was prearranged.
    On the other hand, the Williams sisters have, albeit reluctantly, played to beat
    each other in some tennis matches.

    By the way, with regard to the women's doubles 'scandal' in the 2012 Olympic
    badminton competition, I prefer to blame the organizers more than the players.
    There was no previous evidence that the disqualified players were any more
    likely than the other players to act in an 'unsportsmanlike' way. Unfortunately,
    the organizers chose a new format (not the previous straight knock-out format)
    that made it a rational long-term strategy to avoid winning a preliminary match
    and therefore have to risk facing a highly seeded competitor (who eventually
    won the gold medal) earlier in the championship rounds. Meanwhile, a British
    cyclist admitted that he had intentionally crashed during a race (was that making
    a sincere effort to do his best?) because he thought it was in his best interest,
    and he was not penalized at all.
  12. 13 Aug '12 21:10
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    ...

    I'm not having a serious dig at them, it's ChessBorg I'm having fun with.
    They claim the women are producing more fighting chess and then have this
    game in their argument.
    The top female players are weaker than than the top male players, so the
    women are more likely than the men to make errors that would contribute
    toward decisive outcomes in their games. I have no doubt that in general
    men are as motivated as women to attempt to win their games.

    That said, Jennifer Shahade has taken note of some stereotypes about women's
    chess, and, as I recall, one stereotype was that many women seem prone to
    pursuing very risky, likely unsound, attacks.
  13. 14 Aug '12 12:41
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I doubt that anyone would expect the Klitschko brothers both to do their utmost to fight each other in a boxing match. And if that match were to take place, I suspect that many people would assume that the outcome was prearranged.
    The Klitschko brothers do at least have the honesty not to fight each other at all, and to have said so in public. They don't pretend to fight and then throw the game.

    Richard
  14. 14 Aug '12 12:57
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    The Klitschko brothers do at least have the honesty not to fight each other at all, and to have said so in public. They don't pretend to fight and then throw the game.

    Richard
    Boxing gives brothers the option of not fighting each other. Chess doesn't, especially in tournament play. Their only alternative would be not to play in the same tournament at all, but that's not very practical.
  15. 14 Aug '12 18:27
    Originally posted by Shallow Blue
    The Klitschko brothers do at least have the honesty not to fight each other at all, and to have said so in public. They don't pretend to fight and then throw the game.

    Richard
    In my earlier post, when I mentioned the Klitschko brothers in boxing and the
    Williams sisters in tennis, it was intended to raise the question of which sport
    should be more closely compared to chess and the Kosintseva sisters.

    Evidently, the Kosintseva sisters would prefer not to play FIDE-rated chess games
    (have they played training games together?) seriously against each other, but
    sometimes they happen to be paired against each other in the same tournaments.
    Obviously, the Kosintseva sisters have prearranged draws with each other.
    I don't approve of their practice more than I would with any other players.

    What you, Shallow Blue, wrote, however, seems to imply a harsher accusation.
    Do you know of any evidence that a Kosintseva sister has ever 'thrown'
    (lost on purpose) a chess game to the other sister?