Topalov or Kramnik?

It still would be nice if Topalov shut everyone up and just played Kramnik in a match for the title. I think he would win, and then there would indisputably be one World Champion, and he could claim that next spot in history indefinitely!

Kramnik is THE problem (and a chicken) - he's the most uninspiring player of these current times compared to Toppie and Leko.

Originally posted by Oddjob291
Kramnik is THE problem (and a chicken) - he's the most uninspiring player of these current times compared to Toppie and Leko.

uninspiring:

[Event "XXI SuperGM"]
[Site "Linares ESP"]
[Date "2004.02.26"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Kramnik, V."]
[Black "Topalov, Veselin"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B90"]
[WhiteElo "2777"]
[BlackElo "2735"]
[PlyCount "73"]
[EventDate "2004.02.19"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2004.03.01"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Be3 e5 7. Nb3 Be6 8. f3
Nbd7 9. Qd2 b5 10. O-O-O h5 11. Nd5 Bxd5 12. exd5 g6 13. Kb1 Nb6 14. Qc3 Be7
15. Qc6+ Nbd7 16. Bb6 Qxb6 17. Qxa8+ Nb8 18. Na5 Nfd7 19. Nc6 Bg5 20. Qa7 Nxc6
21. Qxb6 Nxb6 22. dxc6 Ke7 23. Rd3 Rc8 24. Ra3 Na4 25. c4 Rxc6 26. Be2 Rb6 27.
cxb5 axb5 28. Bxb5 Rxb5 29. Rxa4 f5 30. Rd1 Be3 31. a3 d5 32. b4 d4 33. Ra5
Rxa5 34. bxa5 Kd6 35. Kc2 e4 36. fxe4 fxe4 37. Re1 1-0

uninspiring opening novelty on move 6 in a must win game:

[Event "WCh"]
[Site "Brissago SUI"]
[Date "2004.10.18"]
[Round "14"]
[White "Kramnik, V."]
[Black "Leko, Peter"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B12"]
[WhiteElo "2770"]
[BlackElo "2741"]
[PlyCount "81"]
[EventDate "2004.09.25"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2004.10.25"]

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. h4 h6 5. g4 Bd7 6. Nd2 $1 $146 ({RR} 6. c3 e6 7.
h5 c5 8. f4 Qb6 9. Nf3 Bb5 10. Bxb5+ Qxb5 11. Na3 Qb6 12. dxc5 Bxc5 13. b4 Be3
14. Qd3 Bxc1 15. Rxc1 a6 16. f5 Ne7 17. Rh2 exf5 18. gxf5 f6 19. Rg2 fxe5 20.
Nxe5 O-O {Kotronias,V-David,A/Plovdiv BUL 2003/The Week in Chess 467/0-1 (39)})
6... c5 7. dxc5 e6 8. Nb3 Bxc5 9. Nxc5 Qa5+ 10. c3 Qxc5 11. Nf3 Ne7 12. Bd3
Nbc6 13. Be3 Qa5 14. Qd2 Ng6 15. Bd4 Nxd4 16. cxd4 Qxd2+ 17. Kxd2 Nf4 18. Rac1
h5 19. Rhg1 Bc6 20. gxh5 Nxh5 21. b4 a6 22. a4 Kd8 23. Ng5 Be8 24. b5 Nf4 25.
b6 Nxd3 26. Kxd3 Rc8 27. Rxc8+ Kxc8 28. Rc1+ Bc6 29. Nxf7 Rxh4 30. Nd6+ Kd8 31.
Rg1 Rh3+ 32. Ke2 Ra3 33. Rxg7 Rxa4 34. f4 Ra2+ 35. Kf3 Ra3+ 36. Kg4 Rd3 37. f5
Rxd4+ 38. Kg5 exf5 39. Kf6 Rg4 40. Rc7 Rh4 (40... Bd7 41. Nxb7+ Ke8 42. Nd6+
Kf8 43. Rxd7 Kg8 44. Nf7 Rg6+ 45. Kxg6 {Hiarcs 9:} Kf8 46. b7 Ke8 47. Rc7 a5
48. b8=Q# {#3/62}) 41. Nf7+ (41. Nf7+ Ke8 42. Rc8+ Kd7 43. Rd8# ) 1-0

Wait on Wulebgr, look at his "short draw" record - not exactly brilliant is it. With Toppie (and you can even bring Shirov) you are highly likely to see something happen over the board whatever opening/defence they will play - win, lose or draw ... bit like Brazilian football team.

I agree that those games were some of his highlights but you gotta admit that Toppie has been involved in some brilliant corkers in recent times e.g. his ...Bh3 move in the ending against Shirov, his loss against Kasparov playing Black of the Pirc Defence and his win against Kasparov himself in his last professional tournament game.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
uninspiring:

[Event "XXI SuperGM"]
[Site "Linares ESP"]
[Date "2004.02.26"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Kramnik, V."]
[Black "Topalov, Veselin"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B90"]
[WhiteElo "2777"]
[BlackElo "2735"]
[PlyCount "73"]
[EventDate "2004.02.19"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2004.03.01"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. ...[text shortened]... Kf8 46. b7 Ke8 47. Rc7 a5
48. b8=Q# {#3/62}) 41. Nf7+ (41. Nf7+ Ke8 42. Rc8+ Kd7 43. Rd8# ) 1-0

Oh, I think we forget about Kramnik! He's never going to be World CHampion! I never considered him a World CHampion. Topalov, I do consider the World CHampion. When writers in the future show pictures and representations of the post-Kasparov era World Champions, they should not include Kramnik. But, they should include Topalov! He's the truth post-Kasparov World Champion. He earned it in a very strong field of World Class players. This one's for you Topie! Now, blast Kramnik, and show the World you're the best!

Originally posted by powershaker
Oh, I think we forget about Kramnik! He's never going to be World CHampion! I never considered him a World CHampion. Topalov, I do consider the World CHampion. When writers in the future show pictures and representations of the post-Kasparov era World Champions, they should not include Kramnik. But, they should include Topalov! He's the truth po ...[text shortened]... s players. This one's for you Topie! Now, blast Kramnik, and show the World you're the best!

No other world champion has had a record against a non-world champion as bad as Topolov's record against Kramnik, unless you also consider Kasimjanov, Khalifman, and Ponomariev true world champions.

... moving onto World Champions are we now, do you not agree that the FIDE World Champion should have been Karpov (who beat Timman) back in 1993/94 after the (illegal?) breakaway of Kasparov/Short & co to compete for the PCA Championship (now defunct organisation) ? And any future champions should stem from this FIDE organisation and following it championships through till now?

Originally posted by Oddjob291
... moving onto World Champions are we now, do you not agree that the FIDE World Champion should have been Karpov (who beat Timman) back in 1993/94 after the (illegal?) breakaway of Kasparov/Short & co to compete for the PCA Championship (now defunct organisation) ? And any future champions should stem from this FIDE organisation and following it championships through till now?

No.

Topalov's success this year gives the FIDE title something it has not had until now: legitimacy. However, that legitimacy is built on sand, while the process that determined Kramnik to be the champion is more solid, despite Kramnik's pathetic recent performance.