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  1. 10 Apr '10 20:00 / 2 edits
    Right, so you're playing an OTB game as black and the rotter opens with something silly like 1. c3. What do you do? As an example, you could play 1. ... c5 and hope to force white into a c3 Sicilian, or you could play 1. ... d5 which may be more accurate but perhaps unfamiliar territory for you. Now perhaps this specific example doesn't work if you don't play the Sicilian and do know lots about the Colle

    Note: This isn't intended to be "How do you respond to 1. c3?" but rather, "Would you rather aim transpose to something familiar or try to capitalise on their poor move order?"
  2. 10 Apr '10 20:22 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Meadows
    Right, so you're playing an OTB game as black and the rotter opens with something silly like 1. c3. What do you do? As an example, you could play 1. ... c5 and hope to force white into a c3 Sicilian, or you could play 1. ... d5 which may be more accurate but perhaps unfamiliar territory for you. Now perhaps this specific example doesn't work if you don't ther aim transpose to something familiar or try to capitalise on their poor move order?"
    i would play quite generally, in that we have two approaches, classical (pawns in the centre), hypermodern (pieces controlling the centre, initially) what does c3 do? Controls d4, well ok, but it develops nothing and blocks the queens knight from its most natural square. Thus it is always advantageous if we are playing classically to attempt two pawns in the centre, and its not always easy as black and here our opponent is giving us the centre for free 1..d5 thank-you very much and we can follow up with 2...c5 unimpeded, what more could we ask for? Or if we are playing hyper modern, something very general, perhaps Nf6, e6 and fianchetto the queens bishop.
  3. Standard member Exuma
    Anansi
    10 Apr '10 21:58
    I like the classical approach too. White has given you something - a chance to take the lead in space and development. I would most likely play d5 also, as e5 smacks of a reverse Caro Kann which usually I don't like playing against as white.
  4. 10 Apr '10 22:35
    Against unusual openings, I usually just play natural developing moves: Nf6, Nc6, e5, d5, Bc5/b4, O-O. It may not be a "refutation" but it will give me a good middle game, and if my opponent neglects developing his pieces or leaves his king in the center, he'll find out very quickly that "natural developing moves" can be quite dangerous
  5. 10 Apr '10 22:52
    Doesn't matter what white plays, I'll go with 1. ... g6. Plenty transpositional possibilities for white to worry about straight away and usually I can guarantee I know more about where we are going than white.
  6. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    11 Apr '10 02:11
    Originally posted by Diophantus
    Doesn't matter what white plays, I'll go with 1. ... g6. Plenty transpositional possibilities for white to worry about straight away and usually I can guarantee I know more about where we are going than white.
    I could have written this- I'm on board! White rarely finds c3 useful in the King's Indian Defense, the Gruenfeld, or the Pirc or Modern, and it's hard to get away with in the Closed Sicilian.

    In the context of the larger question, the above is an example of why I would aim for a transposition rather than attempt to capitalize, and why I am on the same page as Diophantus- we both think we can successfully steer the game into areas where we are familiar and ready to play.

    Paul
  7. 11 Apr '10 02:49
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i would play quite generally,...
    Concise and correct, imho. Rec'd.
  8. 11 Apr '10 02:55
    The option of transposing is dependent on whether your opponent allows it.

    Most folks will play one unusual move but then proceed to try to transpose so they are kinda fake unorthodox players.

    Transposing will generally be impossible against truly unorthodox players.

    Truly unorthodox players are ultra rare though.

    Most unorthodox players are like 1.b4 players or whatever opening they like to play and end up being normal players except that they play 1.b4 or whatever opening they like.

    Usually the strange move player will help with transposing into a normal position.

    These are just observations.I have no conclusion or statement or recommendation though.
  9. 11 Apr '10 03:20
    transpose or capitalize? I don't quite get the terminology. Aren't you always trying to capitalize on what your opponent plays? Don't you just transpose to something when you think it is beneficial to you (or your opponent doesn't understand the resultant positions as well as you do)

    In the 1. c3 example (without being a "true" pirc/modern or grunfeld player) I would play n-f6 or g6(probably more likely n-f6 not allowing e4 and encouraging d4 with g6 to come and grunfeld like pressure on the long diagonal/center
  10. 11 Apr '10 06:16
    Originally posted by Meadows
    Note: This isn't intended to be "How do you respond to 1. c3?" but rather, "Would you rather aim transpose to something familiar..."
    1. c3 f5!
  11. 11 Apr '10 07:31
  12. 11 Apr '10 07:53
    Originally posted by erikido
    transpose or capitalize? I don't quite get the terminology. Aren't you always trying to capitalize on what your opponent plays? Don't you just transpose to something when you think it is beneficial to you (or your opponent doesn't understand the resultant positions as well as you do)

    In the 1. c3 example (without being a "true" pirc/modern or grunfeld ...[text shortened]... and encouraging d4 with g6 to come and grunfeld like pressure on the long diagonal/center
    Yeah, I think "capitalise" was a poor choice on my part. As soon as the thread was made I figured it probably should have been transposition v refutation.
  13. 11 Apr '10 10:08
    Originally posted by National Master Dale
    The option of transposing is dependent on whether your opponent allows it.

    Most folks will play one unusual move but then proceed to try to transpose so they are kinda fake unorthodox players.

    Transposing will generally be impossible against truly unorthodox players.

    Truly unorthodox players are ultra rare though.

    Most unorthodox pla ...[text shortened]... tion.

    These are just observations.I have no conclusion or statement or recommendation though.
    1. b4 g6. I still get positions I am familiar with and my opponent gets to scratch his head and wonder what I am smoking. This appraoch, 1. ... g6 against everything, actually works for some strange reason.
  14. 11 Apr '10 12:49
    Originally posted by Diophantus
    1. b4 g6. I still get positions I am familiar with and my opponent gets to scratch his head and wonder what I am smoking. This appraoch, 1. ... g6 against everything, actually works for some strange reason.
    International master Alexander Bangiev has built a repertoire for black with the moves 1...g6 2...Bg7 3...c5 against everything white has with the exception of 1.b3 or 1.b4 because white can play 2.Bb2 after 1...g6 and blacks kingside is at very least weakened and untidy.
  15. 11 Apr '10 15:42
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    International master Alexander Bangiev has built a repertoire for black with the moves 1...g6 2...Bg7 3...c5 against everything white has with the exception of 1.b3 or 1.b4 because white can play 2.Bb2 after 1...g6 and blacks kingside is at very least weakened and untidy.
    1. b4 g6 2. Bb2 Nf6 works for me. I have a game currently on another site where I am managing to hold someone rated 600 points higher than me despite being daft enough to play g6 in response to 1. b4. Nigel Davies used g6 as his only black defence when seeking GM norms, Petrosian used it when he wanted to win as black. I use it because I am lazy!