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  1. 07 Mar '07 01:58
    1. e4 e5
    2. Nf3 Nc6
    3. Bc4 Nf6

    I always have liked seeing black do this...
    after this line:
    4. Ng5 d5
    5. exd5
    is white's win forced if black, usually a novice, plays 5. ... Nxd5 6. Nxf7 Kxf7 7. Qf3+ Ke6 8. Nc3
    instead of the usual:
    5. ... Na5
    6. Bb5+ c6
    7. dxc6 bxc6
    8. Ba4 where white gets a pawn for poor and uaually slow development...

    is 5. ... Nxd5 a blunder?
    or is there any accurate, proper way for black to defend after this fifth move?
  2. 07 Mar '07 02:21
    black can avoid that Ng5 if Bc5 is played.
  3. 07 Mar '07 08:42
    The Fried Liver Attack is a fabulous opening & is well worth the try against -1500 players.
    1.e5...e5
    2.Nf3...Nc6
    3.Bc4...Nf6
    4.Ng5...d5
    5.exd5...Nxd5
    6.Nxf7...Kxf7
    7.Qf3+!
    ... & with reasonably accurate play white already has a won game


    black to play - & lose within 20 moves




    Here's an example of how you can hassle the black king & build up a strong attack very quickly
    Game 2959312
  4. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    07 Mar '07 08:45 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    The Fried Liver Attack is a fabulous opening & is well worth the try against -1500 players.
    1.e5...e5
    2.Nf3...Nc6
    3.Bc4...Nf6
    4.Ng5...d5
    5.exd5...Nxd5
    6.Nxf7...Kxf7
    7.Qf3+!
    ... & with reasonably accurate play white already has a won game

    I disagree that after 6.Nxf7 white has already won game - they have strong attack for material, but it is not so easy to attack if black know how to defend.

    Also instead of 6.Nxf7 another good move are 6.d4.
  5. 07 Mar '07 08:50
    Originally posted by Korch
    I disagree that after 6.Nxf7 white has already won game - they have strong attack for material, but it is not so easy to attack if black know how to defend.

    Also instead of 6.Nxf7 another good move are 6.d4.
    6.d4 is superior to 6.Nxf7. You must take only on f7 when the knight cannot be maintained on g5. Meanwhile, development gets priority. But still then it is not a done deal.
  6. 07 Mar '07 08:55
    Originally posted by rubberjaw30
    1. e4 e5
    2. Nf3 Nc6
    3. Bc4 Nf6

    I always have liked seeing black do this...
    after this line:
    4. Ng5 d5
    5. exd5
    is white's win forced if black, usually a novice, plays 5. ... Nxd5 6. Nxf7 Kxf7 7. Qf3+ Ke6 8. Nc3
    instead of the usual:
    5. ... Na5
    6. Bb5+ c6
    7. dxc6 bxc6
    8. Ba4 where white gets a pawn for poor and uaually slow development ...[text shortened]... xd5 a blunder?
    or is there any accurate, proper way for black to defend after this fifth move?
    I think that 5...Nxd5 is a blunder but not because of 6.Nxf7 but 6.d4, trying to open up the position before sacrificing on f7, there is little black can do to prevent the sacrifice and all his moves that prevent a sac on f7 are quite bad.
  7. 07 Mar '07 08:55
    Originally posted by Korch
    I disagree that after 6.Nxf7 white has already won game - they have strong attack for material, but it is not so easy to attack if black know how to defend.

    Also instead of 6.Nxf7 another good move are 6.d4.
    Yeah but if they played 5...Nxd5 that is not best play & suggests they are already out of their comfort zone no?
  8. Standard member Dutch Defense
    Stealer of Souls
    07 Mar '07 12:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    The Fried Liver Attack is a fabulous opening & is well worth the try against -1500 players.
    1.e5...e5
    2.Nf3...Nc6
    3.Bc4...Nf6
    4.Ng5...d5
    5.exd5...Nxd5
    6.Nxf7...Kxf7
    7.Qf3+!
    ... & with reasonably accurate play white already has a won game


    black to play - & lose within 20 moves
    [fen]r1bq1b1r/ppp2kpp/2n5/3np3/2B5/5Q2/PPPP1PPP/RNB1K2R b KQ f how you can hassle the black king & build up a strong attack very quickly
    Game 2959312
    ; oh um, black blundered their knight and queen. The game would be lost for you if black knew how to defend well and you made a few bad moves during the game.
  9. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    07 Mar '07 12:36
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    Yeah but if they played 5...Nxd5 that is not best play & suggests they are already out of their comfort zone no?
    Of course - 5...Na5 is much better.
  10. 07 Mar '07 13:22
    Originally posted by Mephisto2
    6.d4 is superior to 6.Nxf7. You must take only on f7 when the knight cannot be maintained on g5. Meanwhile, development gets priority. But still then it is not a done deal.
    I have recently tried this (the game is still in progress, so I won't post) but after a couple inaccuracies, my attack was repelled.
  11. 07 Mar '07 13:28
    The FLA probably plays better against a person, not a database
  12. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    07 Mar '07 16:11
    Truth be told I think black defends find after Nxf7, and that d4 is clearly better, and much better for White.
  13. Standard member Diet Coke
    Forum Vampire
    07 Mar '07 16:23
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    Truth be told I think black defends find after Nxf7, and that d4 is clearly better, and much better for White.
    I'm having trouble in my game as white with this.
  14. 07 Mar '07 18:21
    The GMs do not play 8. Ba4 .... ? It must not be that good of a move.
  15. 07 Mar '07 20:54
    I'd always preferred 6.d4, and Nxf7 only after a move like Be7 or h6. It's not winning but it's very strong.

    One defensive idea for Black is Bb4+, if c3 to block then the N can't go to that square. That's the kind of non-obvious move necessary to extract yourself from a tough situation.