As well as playing my beloved Najdorf I just as frequently play 1...e5 in response to 1.e4.
However I always wonder what is the best move to play after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4.
In the past I have played 3...Nf6 but practically OTB I have found I need to remember too many critical lines.
Particularly 4.Ng5 which Short has recently said White simply wins a pawn!!
Therefore I have recently started playing 3...Bc5.
What are your guys opinions on the best moves, also what do you think are the advantages/disadvantges of each move.
Originally posted by najdorfslayer3. ... Nf6 is more aggressive and gives black better winning chances.
As well as playing my beloved Najdorf I just as frequently play 1...e5 in response to 1.e4.
However I always wonder what the best move to play after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4.
[fen]r1bqkbnr/pppp1ppp/2n5/4p3/2B1P3/5N2/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq - 0 1[/fen]
In the past I have played 3...Nf6 but practically OTB I have found I need to remember too man ...[text shortened]... opinions on the best moves, also what do you think are the advantages/disadvantges of each move.
whereas
3. ... Bc5 is solid, boring and drawish.
Play the former to win, the latter to draw.
I agree with Dragon Fire.
Nf6 leads to the Traxler (Wilkes-Barre) Counterattack. I score over 50% against people rated 1900-2200 and I'm only rated 1700 when I get to play this line as black (OTB is better but I score nicely in CC too).
If you're interested, I always play Nf6 there, the traxler is just too good.
For once it would appear that Short is wrong Ng5 is lethal! I have played games in which people have simply resigned after i have played it! However white does have to defend g5 before he plays that so you have got time on your side if that's what he's aiming to do. So at the end of the day just play Nf6 forcing white to play Nc3 wasting more time, then afte Bc5 you're free to castle and the danger of Ng5 has passed
Originally posted by ih8sensYeah I saw one of your games in it.
I agree with Dragon Fire.
Nf6 leads to the Traxler (Wilkes-Barre) Counterattack. I score over 50% against people rated 1900-2200 and I'm only rated 1700 when I get to play this line as black (OTB is better but I score nicely in CC too).
If you're interested, I always play Nf6 there, the traxler is just too good.
You have to have balls of steel to play the Traxler OTB though. Have only dared play it once OTB and got a draw.
Objectively though, the Traxler is probably unsound for Black.
Originally posted by najdorfslayerActually... Wilkes, Barre, and Traxler all thought it to be objectively sound and with most engines (EVEN after Bxf7+) the game is judged to be equal by about the 13-15th move.
Yeah I saw one of your games in it.
You have to have balls of steel to play the Traxler OTB though. Have only dared play it once OTB and got a draw.
Objectively though, the Traxler is probably unsound for Black.
I'd say with perfect play the line draws after Bxf7+ and wins for black after Nxf7.
If you'd like a game as white I'd be happy to play you 🙂.
I regret now not keeping every ounce of computer analysis I have generated over the past few months regarding this opening... it would have made a great book 😛.
Originally posted by ih8sensMmmmm.........not to sure about that some very recent publication on the net says White is much better with a line in the 5.Nxf7 variation (http://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB68_142.pdf)
Actually... Wilkes, Barre, and Traxler all thought it to be objectively sound and with most engines (EVEN after Bxf7+) the game is judged to be equal by about the 13-15th move.
I'd say with perfect play the line draws after Bxf7+ and wins for black after Nxf7.
If you'd like a game as white I'd be happy to play you 🙂.
I regret now not keeping ev ...[text shortened]... erated over the past few months regarding this opening... it would have made a great book 😛.
anyway I don't trust engines in the Traxler, far too materialistic.
I don't actually play 1.e4 very often and when I do I always play 3.Bb5. So a game may not be the best idea as far as I'm concerned.
Code for I'm chickening out 😉
Thanks for the offer, I'd be happy to play you as both colours though but not in a Traxler!
Originally posted by najdorfslayeri think i'll take you up on that too 🙂.
Mmmmm.........not to sure about that some very recent publication on the net says White is much better with a line in the 5.Nxf7 variation (http://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB68_142.pdf)
anyway I don't trust engines in the Traxler, far too materialistic.
I don't actually play 1.e4 very often and when I do I always play 3.Bb5. So a game may no ...[text shortened]... Thanks for the offer, I'd be happy to play you as both colours though but not in a Traxler!
Send a couple over, I've put you on my friends list so they'll get through no problem.
You'll kill me though... my skill in the Traxler is more than made up for in my retardation in other lines 😛.
Well the Giuoco Piano has the crazy 4. c3 line or the boring 4. d3 line, so you are giving your opponent the choice here. With 3. ... Nf6 you have to be prepared for an immediate 4. Ng5 where after 4. ... d5 5. exd5 you either play Nxd5 and brace yourself for 6. d4 or Nxf7?! or you could play 5. ... Na5 the Morphy Gambit. As a 3. Bc4 player i always get annoyed if someone plays the two knights though, but that's just me. Also on the Two Knights White can't play 4. Nc3 Nxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 where black theoretically has the advantage.
Originally posted by rejectionYou can also try 5. ... b5 as I did in Game 3485180 and Game 4030313.
Well the Giuoco Piano has the crazy 4. c3 line or the boring 4. d3 line, so you are giving your opponent the choice here. With 3. ... Nf6 you have to be prepared for an immediate 4. Ng5 where after 4. ... d5 5. exd5 you either play Nxd5 and brace yourself for 6. d4 or Nxf7?! or you could play 5. ... Na5 the Morphy Gambit. As a 3. Bc4 player i always get an o Knights White can't play 4. Nc3 Nxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 where black theoretically has the advantage.
It avoids the main lines and seems to give interesting play.
Edit: In case anyones wondering I gave the draw in the 2nd game as I wanted to give up the seige board. I think at the end I had enough of an advantage to probably win.