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  1. 01 Dec '08 20:11
    should i play against queens gambit?
    is any defence better than all the rest against it
    i never accept i have tried it and white always comes out ahead
    Thanks in advance
  2. Standard member Diet Coke
    Forum Vampire
    01 Dec '08 20:19
    1....Nf6
  3. 01 Dec '08 21:25
    I assume you mean for black after 1.d4 d5 2.c4

    A. dxc4 is the QG Accepted

    A common theme in this one is white gets an isolated d pawn and extra space with attacking chances. Black's position is slightly restricted but certainly playable.

    B.2. ... c6 is the Slav/Semi-Slav

    3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 dxc4 is the Slav. Black gives up his presence in the center to develop his queen's bishop actively. Black has good piece control of the center, white occupies the center with pawns.

    4. ... e6 is the Semi-Slav. 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Bd3 dxc4 7.Bxc4 b5 is the main line. Black launches the queenside pawns forward and creates active play. Black's position can become loose without careful play.
    Many of the top players prefer this defense. It is a strong weapon in the right hands. Unfortunately, there is tons and tons of theory.

    C. 2. ... e6 is the Classical QG Declined

    3.Nc3

    C.1. 3. ... c5 The Tarrasch Defense This time, black takes an isolated pawn and pawn control of the center. The whole game becomes a battle over the d5 and c5 squares. There is a lot of theory to this one too.

    C.2. 3. ... Nf6 4.Bg5 Nbd7 5.Nf3 c6 6.e3 Qa5 is the Cambridge Springs
    Black tries to get active very early. I haven't had much experience with this one. The games that I have played I have either won very early from traps, or lost very theoretically from positions that lacked counterplay.

    C.3. 3. ... Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e3 Nbd7 (4 and 5 are interchangable).

    This is the Old Orthodox QG. It served Lasker and Capablanca quite well. 6.Nf3 0-0 White tries to avoid Bd3. 7.Rc1 c6 8.Bd3 dxc4 9.Bxc4 Nd5 This is Capablanca's maneuver. The idea is for the black side, with less space, to trade pieces. 10.Bxe7 Qxe7 11.0-0 Nxc3 12.Rxc3 e5 is one variation. The defense is solid but a bit dated. Not many players use it anymore. Just remember h6 does not really fit in in this system.

    C.4. 3. ... Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e3 h6 6.Bh4 0-0 7.Nf3

    C.4.1. Ne4 is the Lasker Defense Again black seeks exchanges to free his game. 8.Bxe7 Qxe7 9.cxd5 Nxc3 10.bxc3 exd5 is a typical line. The defense is very playable.
    This site has a pretty good lecture on it
    http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2007/lasker-kenilworth-repertoire.htm

    C.4.2. 7. ... b6 is the Tartakower It too is very solid. 8.cxd5 Nxd5 9.Bxe7 Qxe7 10.Nxd5 exd5 is one way the game can proceed.

    Among the QGD with e6 choices, I'd say the Lasker or the Tartakower are the way to go.

    There is one other problem with the black side of the QGD.

    1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 (The Exchange Variation) is a really solid white system.
    After 4. ... exd5 5.Bg5 Be7 it can be really hard for black to get active play.

    I hope this little overview helps.
    You will obviously need more analysis.
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Dec '08 21:32
    Originally posted by GrandRADMaster
    should i play against queens gambit?
    is any defence better than all the rest against it
    i never accept i have tried it and white always comes out ahead
    Thanks in advance
    I know this doesn't really answer your question, but if you have trouble against the QG, I'd consider playing 1.... g6 and hope to get into a KID or something similar. If you often come out a pawn behind after a QG central skirmish, then don't skirmish until you're good and ready. Once you've played g6, Bg7, Nf3 and d6, now you're ready to play c5 or e5 on your own terms, when you're prepared and ready. I faced a 4 pawns attack against my KID recently (gee, that sounds scary, no?), and I played d6 and c5 with Na6 and it worked beautifully.

    Game 5599037
  5. 01 Dec '08 21:37
    Originally posted by sh76
    I know this doesn't really answer your question, but if you have trouble against the QG, I'd consider playing 1.... g6 and hope to get into a KID or something similar. If you often come out a pawn behind after a QG central skirmish, then don't skirmish until you're good and ready. Once you've played g6, Bg7, Nf3 and d6, now you're ready to play c5 or e5 on your ...[text shortened]... y, no?), and I played d6 and c5 with Na6 and it worked beautifully.

    Game 5599037
    1.d4 g6 2.e4 forces you to know the Modern against 1.e4 as well.
  6. Standard member Nowakowski
    10. O-O
    01 Dec '08 22:12
    Slav and Semi slav always leads to black favored endgames. I quite enjoy that pawn structure.
  7. Standard member Lukerik
    Stick your hands up
    01 Dec '08 22:35
    After innumerable losses I chickened out and took to 1...f5
  8. 01 Dec '08 23:49
    Originally posted by sh76
    If you often come out a pawn behind after a QG central skirmish, then don't skirmish until you're good and ready.
    I would say the opposite: if you often come out a pawn behind after a QG central skirmish, keep playing that until you're good and ready. By switching to another defense before you learn that, you'd be missing an opportunity to improve your play.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    01 Dec '08 23:54
    Originally posted by danilop
    I would say the opposite: if you often come out a pawn behind after a QG central skirmish, keep playing that until you're good and ready. By switching to another defense before you learn that, you'd be missing an opportunity to improve your play.
    I meant don't skirmish in the game until you're ready; i.e., don't put a pawn on the 5th rank until you're prepared for the skirmish. But I guess your point still holds.
  10. 02 Dec '08 00:03
    Nf6 is a good alternative. It would be easier to suggest an opening if you had established a rating and had a good ammount of games to look through to see what the problem may be. There are a couple of things to play against a d4 player, the grunfeld is often a good choice. d4 d5 c4 Nf6 Nc3 g6 cxd5 Nxd5 e4 Nxc3. This opening black is going to try to undermine whites center eventually with c5 and sometimes giving up the c5 pawn to put pressure on whites position which is well worth the pawn, usually won back.

    I prefer to play the Nf6 e6 and d5 in this sequence. If I can i enter a meran system which is very solid or if white doesn't want to go that route then cxd5 results in exd5 and it gives dynamic play for both sides. If you are more tactically inclined then grunfeld, but if not then meran or slav. If you are more tactical another one is the nimzo indian.
  11. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    02 Dec '08 00:32 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Lukerik
    After innumerable losses I chickened out and took to 1...f5
    The Dutch is a great defence, as long as you try to attack.

    The QG is a bit like the Ruy, you should know how to play it with either set of pieces - even if it isn´t your main line. I generally cope with white, but hardly ever play it as black,

    To answer the thread initiators post:

    Don´t worry about the best defence against it, it is the one you feel most comfortable playing you should play. So try out all of paulbuchmanfromfics´ suggestions, take note of the strategy advice - you need to be trying to do the right things with openings - and decide which of them most suits your style of play. Choose a second favorite for players who play well against your first choice, which you should try to play at least 1/5 of the time. Then look into the theory as deeply as you have time to. If you actually do that you´ll find yourself looking forward to 1. d4.

    This approach worked for me with the Dutch after trying out the possibilties in the order that they were presented in in the MacDonald book I settled on first choice Classical, close second Stonewall, close 3rd Leningrad - although the Dutch is one of those openings where you have to put up with what you are presented with.

    Bear in mind that white still has stuff like 2. Bg5 (against both 1. ... d5 and 1. ... f5) so you have to be able to cope both the Queen´s Gambit and the other good non-Queen´s Gambit lines after 1. d4 d5.
  12. Standard member clandarkfire
    Grammar Nazi
    02 Dec '08 03:18
    I would play the slav or QGD, but I myself prefer to avoid the queens gambit altogether by playing the KID, Grunfeld, or Budapest Gambit.
  13. 02 Dec '08 04:53
    some times I try to go with something like d4 d5, c4 e6, Nc3 Nf6, e3 b6 trying to get my light squared bishop active on the diagonal.
  14. 02 Dec '08 05:40 / 1 edit
    A good "fighting" defense against the Queen's Gambit is the Tchigorin Defense (1 d4 d5 2 c4 Nc6). It served super-GM Morozevich well for many years. He recently wrote a book about this defense.

    In his black repertoire book, Ideas Behind Modern Chess Openings: Black, IM Gary Lane recommends the Tchigorin Defense against 1 d4. (He recommends the Scandinavian against 1 e4.)

    There is another recent book called Play 1...Nc6 by IM Christoph Wisnewski that also recommends the Tchigorin Defense.
  15. 02 Dec '08 05:55
    The Tchigorin is a whole different planet.

    1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6

    In this one, black must prefer knights to bishops. In quite a few variations, black has knights on c6 and e7 (or f6) with a pawn on e6, while white has a pawn in the center and the two bishops. If you like having the knights, then by all means play it. It is certainly playable.