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  1. 17 Mar '06 01:25 / 2 edits


    I've recently faced this position on playchess.com and it has perplexed me. It is not that I cannot find a good move, it's that I cannot decide on what the best move is.

    I played d6, however, d5, Nf6 and Rb8 are all valid moves. I've also looked in various databases, but unsurpisingly, there are no games like this. What would be black's best move, and why?
  2. 17 Mar '06 01:27
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    [fen]r1bqk1nr/p2pppbp/2p3p1/8/4P3/2N5/PPPB1PPP/R2QKB1R b KQkq - 0 7[/fen]

    I've recently faced this position on playchess.com and it has perplexed me. It is not that I cannot find a good move, it's that I cannot decide on what the best move is.

    I played d6, however, d5, Nf6 and Rb8 are all valid moves. Which move do you guys think would be best, and why?
    What were the opening moves? Strange that the b and the d pawn are missing for black and white respectively.
  3. 17 Mar '06 01:34 / 2 edits
    I was going for the Hyper-Accelerated Dragon (usually with queenside action) and here are the moves leading up to the position:

    [Event "Friendly Game, 12m + 12s"]
    [Site "Beginners"]
    [Date "2006.03.16"]
    [White "Guest"]
    [Black "Guest1625078"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [ECO "B34"]
    [EventDate "2006.03.16"]
    [TimeControl "720+12"]

    1. e4 {[%emt 0:00:01]} c5 {[%emt 0:00:02]} 2. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:01]} g6 {
    [%emt 0:00:02]} 3. d4 {[%emt 0:00:02]} cxd4 {[%emt 0:00:01]} 4. Nxd4 {
    [%emt 0:00:01]} Nc6 {[%emt 0:00:00]} 5. Nxc6 {[%emt 0:00:02]} bxc6 {
    [%emt 0:00:01]} 6. Nc3 {[%emt 0:00:15]} Bg7 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 7. Bd2 {
    [%emt 0:00:05]} d6 {[%emt 0:00:18]} 0-1

    It didn't really end there, but the rest of the game is really irrelevant.
  4. 17 Mar '06 01:37
    It's probably in databases then since it's still in the opening.

    Check there? I have no idea though. That line is not give in the sicilian book I have.
  5. 17 Mar '06 01:43
    I've checked a lot of opening databases, I haven't found this position. But I did play around with Qb6 as an alternate and it doesn't seem promising. I've narrowed it down to Nf6, d6, d5 and Rb8.
  6. 17 Mar '06 01:55
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    I've checked a lot of opening databases, I haven't found this position. But I did play around with Qb6 as an alternate and it doesn't seem promising. I've narrowed it down to Nf6, d6, d5 and Rb8.
    www.chesslive.de

    83 games including one by lasker with black.

    There's also www.chesslab.com but don't trust it to much. Games are not always high quality.
  7. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    17 Mar '06 01:57 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    I've checked a lot of opening databases, I haven't found this position. But I did play around with Qb6 as an alternate and it doesn't seem promising. I've narrowed it down to Nf6, d6, d5 and Rb8.
    You didn't check very hard then. I have the position after 7. Bd2 6 times in my recent GM database (500k total games) and 26 times in my general database (2 million total games).
    Overall performance for black is 75% in the GM database and 30% in the general database (100% is all black wins, 0% all white wins).

    Moves played:

    7. ... Nf6
    Twice in the GM database, 6 times in the general. Scoring 100% in GM and 67% in the general.

    7. ... d6
    Once in the GM database, 4 times in the general. Scores 100% in the GM and 87% in the general.

    Other moves played include e6, d5, e5, Bb7, Rb8 and Qb6. The large array of moves played indicates that this position isn't the subject of a prevailing wisdom and as black has the tempo and needs to define a clear plan lots of moves are perfectly acceptable.

    EDIT: Beaten on finding the game in a database but I've got the moves palyed.
  8. 17 Mar '06 01:57
    I can't go that deeply into chessbase, at least not for free. What does the database recommend?
  9. 17 Mar '06 02:05
    Hmm, based on this I guess d6 may be the best after all. Maybe someone could report Shredder's move choice after a good 30 minutes of analysis. Or if not Shredder, some other good engines.
  10. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    17 Mar '06 02:15
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    Hmm, based on this I guess d6 may be the best after all. Maybe someone could report Shredder's move choice after a good 30 minutes of analysis. Or if not Shredder, some other good engines.
    Engines are not much use in the opening.
  11. 17 Mar '06 02:27 / 1 edit
    I know, but I'm still curious. Sometimes, engines can come up with strong but novel moves in the opening. In any case, Shredder's opinion can't hurt.
  12. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    17 Mar '06 02:57
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    I know, but I'm still curious. Sometimes, engines can come up with strong but novel moves in the opening. In any case, Shredder's opinion can't hurt.
    Fritz 8 recommends 7. ... d5.
  13. Standard member TippedKing
    Blunder Grandmaster
    17 Mar '06 03:14 / 1 edit
  14. 18 Mar '06 01:28
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    I can't go that deeply into chessbase, at least not for free. What does the database recommend?
    Did you even read my post above?

    After you read it then,

    You're welcome
  15. 18 Mar '06 02:31 / 1 edit
    Sure I read it, but knowing that there are 83 games without knowing what they are doesn't help much. I also looked at the games in Chesslab, but there are only a few and I have no clue as to what they are rated.