Originally posted by DeepThoughtGame 1235744 This one felt like an engine, and when I did analysis, almost every move matched up. However, my two Ironman games were won by incredible depth of thought, something that an engine has trouble with.
Ark13: When I was beaten by Yozzer it felt like being beaten by a human, I've played machines and they invariably trash me very quickly - partly due to my inability to take them seriously and partly due to my inability. I'd say the same of Ironman31 and Queenoflasvegas. To be honest I'm sceptical about the verdict, but since I have only the games I ...[text shortened]... person to lead the moderation team and I hope that he was right in the assessment of the games.
Originally posted by ark13As I said I don't have a copy of Fritz or anything cleverer than Gnuchess. I don't do post game analysis, as a rule - normally my opponent has pointed out to me in the game what I have got wrong by fairly direct refutation. I have no idea about the level of match up with Fritz in any of these games.
Game 1235744 This one felt like an engine, and when I did analysis, almost every move matched up. However, my two Ironman games were won by incredible depth of thought, something that an engine has trouble with.
I owe Yozzer for putting me on to the Halloween gambit - he showed me this game: Game 1286303 and gave me a link to the chessville.com site where they give analysis. I gave it a try in this game: Game 1338113 I have checkmate after 25. ... Qf4 as well - I think that black has an interesting try with 25. ... Qe7 as the rook can't take the queen; I saw 26. Qa8+ Kd7 27. Qb7 (or Qa7 hoping for Kd6 but Kc8 repeats) Kd6 28. Qc5+ Kxc5 29. Qb4+ Kd5 30. c4+ and I end up with a queen against a rook and a knight. I think that my opponent's best move (I should add he has the advantage in our other in progress game) was 25 ... Qxf2+ 26. Bxf2 Nxf2 (not Rxf2 as then there is no answer to Rb1) and after for example 27. Rb1 Rd1+ 28. Rxd1 Nxd1 and I could see nothing certain and am down on the material count so I suspect after that my best result was a draw.
So this is why I want it not to be true. Although, of course, now that the sentence has been passed it would be better if it is true as if they are innocent...
On the other hand I stopped playing the king's gambit as an alternative to 2. Nf3 as a result of a game against Yozzer so maybe I should not be so sympathetic.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtThe move 21 ....... O-O-O is a database move: I played the same line against IM but my 22nd move was Qh3 which I think is clearly better. The line in the game was Qh5 trying for a perpetual and that might be technically best but I was playing for a win. The following is on Chesslab:
Ark13: When I was beaten by Yozzer it felt like being beaten by a human, I've played machines and they invariably trash me very quickly - partly due to my inability to take them seriously and partly due to my inability. I'd say the same of Ironman31 and Queenoflasvegas. To be honest I'm sceptical about the verdict, but since I have only the games I ...[text shortened]... person to lead the moderation team and I hope that he was right in the assessment of the games.
Event "Israeli League"]
[Site "Ramat Aviv ISR"]
[Date "2000.??.??"]
[White "REBEL CENTURY"]
[Black "Har Zvi,R"]
[Round "5"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[BlackElo "2507"]
[ECO "B96"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3
a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Qc7 8. Qf3 b5 9. f5
b4 10. Ncb5 axb5 11. Bxb5+ Bd7 12. fxe6 Bxb5 13. Nxb5
Qc5 14. Bxf6 fxe6 15. Nd4 gxf6 16. Nxe6 Qc4 17. Qxf6
Nd7 18. Nc7+ Qxc7 19. Qxh8 Qc5 20. Qxh7 Qe3+ 21. Kf1
O-O-O 22. Qh5 Bg7 23. Qe2 Qf4+ 24. Ke1 Bxb2 25. Rb1
Rf8 26. Kd1 Bc3 27. g3 Qg5 28. a3 Nc5 29. Rxb4
Bxb4 30. axb4 Qe5 31. bxc5 Qa1+ 32. Kd2 Qxh1 33. Qa6+
Kd7 34. Qxd6+ Ke8 35. Qe6+ Kd8 36. Qd5+ Ke7 37. Qe5+
Kf7 38. Qf4+ Kg8
Originally posted by no1marauderI still think that 0-0-0 was a damn good move, but yes 22. Qh3 is a definite improvement on what I was trying.
The move 21 ....... O-O-O is a database move: I played the same line against IM but my 22nd move was Qh3 which I think is clearly better. The line in the game was Qh5 trying for a perpetual and that might be technically best but I was playing for a win. The following is on Chesslab: [cuts out game]
- Joined
- 03 Sep 03
- Moves
- 89323
Originally posted by DeepThoughtBoth Tebb and GateCrasher did an enormous amount of work on this case. I can say that both were very disappointed by what they found.
I should add, after this essay of dissent that I think that David Tebb is clearly the best person to lead the moderation team and I hope that he was right in the assessment of the games.
IM31 may very well be a great player and have access to an enormous library of chess books/databases. Despite knowing all that, it did NOT change the facts the he was using an engine.
--tmetzler
- Joined
- 16 Dec 04
- Moves
- 56692
I just don't get it. What can someone take from using an engine, I mean, what is their personal gain from winning by cheating on this site?? A win means your rating goes up, but on this site, in the main, you are just a username who people wouldn't even know if they bumped into you. I imagine that both Yozzer and IM were pretty good players sans engines but if a game required it they turned to their good old buddy Fritz, which is cheating. It begs the question to how many other people do this too, it would be pretty hard to say definitively that a player has been using an engine if it is only being used sporadically.
I for one wasn't pleased to hear the news, IM was a bit of an enigma on this site but for him and others to get banned the mods must have found some pretty suspicious moves in a lot of games to make a big decision like they did, so I am guessing they made a correct decision.
The overriding question is though, why bother cheating?? There is no gain other than ranking points which, in the grand scheme of things, mean nothing. To all engine users I have to say that you are sad, sad individuals.
1 edit
Everyone on RHP owes me an IMMEDIATE APOLOGY!
I was saying all along that Ironman31 cheats, and what did I get, I got banned and lost my star! I was rediculed by the entire community, everyone went against me, the guy was using Deep Junior FFS! I hope Ravello packs up his bags like he says he would. The fact of the matter is, I, mateulose, was the GOOD GUY, WAS CORRECT, AND YOU WERE ALL EVIL AND WRONG! I want my mateulose nick unbanned immediately (seeing I got banned for calling Ironman31 a cheat) and I want some apologies, I also want my star back...
Originally posted by RagnorakRags, your days are numbered, I don't think you have the right to talk crap right about now. You KNEW Ironman cheated and defended him anyways, and you got me banned, that's all I have to say, take it or leave it, numbskull.
Your memory seems to be failing you there, mate. Are you off your medication again?
D
Originally posted by TheGambitCheating can become an addiction.
I just don't get it. What can someone take from using an engine, I mean, what is their personal gain from winning by cheating on this site?? A win means your rating goes up, but on this site, in the main, you are just a username who people wouldn't even know if they bumped into you. I imagine that both Yozzer and IM were pretty good players sans engin ...[text shortened]... e of things, mean nothing. To all engine users I have to say that you are sad, sad individuals.
Suppose a person felt his opponent cheats and to get even makes a few cheat moves against him. Serves him right is the rationalization. But the ease with which the gratification is achieved is the beginning of all addiction.
Originally posted by DeadBeSwallowedHahahahahahaha.
Everyone on RHP owes me an IMMEDIATE APOLOGY!
I was saying all along that Ironman31 cheats, and what did I get, I got banned and lost my star! I was rediculed by the entire community, everyone went against me, the guy was using Deep Junior FFS! I hope Ravello packs up his bags like he says he would. The fact of the matter is, I, mateulose, was the ...[text shortened]... got banned for calling Ironman31 a cheat) and I want some apologies, I also want my star back...
No.
You got banned because you acted like an ass, your inappropriate clan name was the final straw. You were never the good guy and never will be. One player that you accused has later been found to be a cheater. How many did you accuse again? I forget, but I suspect it was at least 10.
Also, it's ridiculed.