Go back
who likes the Dutch

who likes the Dutch

Only Chess

DS

Joined
03 Mar 05
Moves
21495
Clock
20 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

...defense to d4? what are the strengths/weaknesses? it looks like the sicilian in a mirror. do the same ideas apply?

m

Joined
28 Jun 05
Moves
2512
Clock
20 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

I personnally like the Dutch very much...I beat my first (and only!😀) International Master with it in the Fluid System. This system is based on the pawn formation f5-e6-d6 and most often also c6. Very "fluid" indeed! The other popular systems are the Stonewall with it's wall of stone spanding from c6-d5-e6-f5 and the Lenningrad system with the idea of putting the f8 bishop in fianchetto. The Dutch is a very interesting opening, but it has a major drawback : the "e5" square!😳 The idea the Dutch are 3-fold : 1) create a stranglehold on e4...don't be surprise if your opponent pushes e4 he liberates his position and you are often in deed sh**! 2) A kingside attack based on the space advantage on this side, and the control of the e4 square. Please, anyone who wants to play the Dutch must study the great Botvinnik. If White is careless, he could be litterally swept away by the virulence of your attack!😲 I myself have tested this quite a few times! 3) Finally, in the stonewall if White is careful and kills your kingside play do not discourage...plenty of queenside of play is possible with manouevres as rooks to b8 and c8, Knight goes from a6 to b4 and then after creating weaknesses comes back via a6 to d7. To conclude, the stonewall is a very complex game with a mastering of the differnt possible pawn-structures a MUST!!! 🙄 The possibilities are endless! So hope I helped, study Botvinnik and a certain KRAMNIK!!! and then come back to me on the posssibilities of the Dutch. Oh, and by the way; no, it can NOT be compared to the sicilian in any way, there is rarely as much piece play but more a deep comprehension of pawn structrure. Even in the more refined Lenningrad system which, if you like the King's Indian, is a definete try! the resulting positions can be very sharp indeed!

m

Joined
28 Jun 05
Moves
2512
Clock
20 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Sorry for the numerous mistakes in typing...I am at work and had but litlle time. Take care, Mike 2119.

Ps: please people, check out my thread on Interesting combinations in my games...it is worth the look😵

powershaker

Hinesville, GA

Joined
17 Aug 05
Moves
12481
Clock
20 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

I play the Stonewall a lot, and I find that e5 is a major weakness. I played a the Stonewall in a tournament in Jacksonville, after studying the lines in How to Play Winning Chess by Horrowitz. I can tell you that most 1400+ players will obliterate you when you play the Stonewall Attack. You must definitely know pawn structures. if they push that e5 pawn to counter, I always end up with an isolated pawn, and my attack is stymied. I looked at a Stonewall game by Kramnik in Killer Chess Tactics, and I analyzed it. But, let's face it! That's Kramnik! Do you think a 1400-1600 player (like myself) could possibly understand the positional strategems of a grandmaster? I think not. I find that when I use the Stonewall against any normal social player, I obliterate them about the first ten games with a score of 10-0, until low and behold, they discover away around the Stonewall. e5! Better yet, they force one to transpose into the Queen's gambit with c5! LOL! I love the Stonewall for it's uniquity and beauty, but it's not a strong opening. I still play it avidly though when I think they might be ignorant to it's poisonous sting! 🙂

m

Joined
28 Jun 05
Moves
2512
Clock
20 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Sorry, but what on Earth are you talking about when you say "transpose to a queen's gambit reversed"? I do not see, at all, the ressemblances. Please enlighten me.🙂 Also, what do you mean by pushing e5? That to was beyond my comprehension...for Black or White. If White plays properly you could NEVER get that push in! Anyway just hoping for some clarifications and no hard feeling, Mike2119.

DS

Joined
03 Mar 05
Moves
21495
Clock
21 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

by the way: thanks.

this is informative.

paul1

London

Joined
15 May 03
Moves
198388
Clock
21 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Darth Sponge
...defense to d4? what are the strengths/weaknesses? it looks like the sicilian in a mirror. do the same ideas apply?
I've got a lot of time for Dennis Bergkamp

D
Losing the Thread

Quarantined World

Joined
27 Oct 04
Moves
87415
Clock
21 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by powershaker
I play the Stonewall a lot, and I find that e5 is a major weakness. I played a the Stonewall in a tournament in Jacksonville, after studying the lines in How to Play Winning Chess by Horrowitz. I can tell you that most 1400+ players will obliterate you when you play the Stonewall Attack. You must definitely know pawn structures. if they push that e5 ...[text shortened]... I still play it avidly though when I think they might be ignorant to it's poisonous sting! 🙂
Ne5 can be a nuisance, but I don't see how likely white is to try to get e5 in. Black has a hole on e5 and so white will try to exploit it, and if white can get a knight there permanently it gets very difficult for black. Also the black knight can't go to c6 and the white squared bishop can be spectacularly bad. Even so I disagree with what you've said, the Dutch Stonewall is a very good defence, but like all of them it's got it's drawbacks; white still has the advantage of going first so you'd expect them to win occasionally.

Vn

Joined
28 Aug 05
Moves
1355
Clock
21 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Originally posted by Darth Sponge
...defense to d4? what are the strengths/weaknesses? it looks like the sicilian in a mirror. do the same ideas apply?
Go to Holland n find out🙂

powershaker

Hinesville, GA

Joined
17 Aug 05
Moves
12481
Clock
22 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

The pawns on d4, c3 and f4 mike? A push of e5 at an awkard moment can force black to take and isolate a pawn. Black can play something like Lasker's Defense and play c5! Hence, Black plays cxd4. White is forced to play cxd4 also, opening up White's queen side, and White has to attack before Black gets through the Queen side. Understood mike?

powershaker

Hinesville, GA

Joined
17 Aug 05
Moves
12481
Clock
22 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

mike, by the way, I'm referring to White playing the Stonewall. That might have thrown you off. Sorry.

m

Joined
28 Jun 05
Moves
2512
Clock
22 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

yup that was it amigo!😉 Now, I understand. Take care, Mike2119.

powershaker

Hinesville, GA

Joined
17 Aug 05
Moves
12481
Clock
22 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

If anyone has any ideas for White's Stonewall Attack, I would be much appreciative. I love this opening and have studied it a lot. I would like to know how to not isolate that pawn on e3 if Black pushes for e5! And, what do I need to do if c5 opens up the Queen side with pawn exchanges. After that, it looks like a Queen's Gambit game, and if Black attacks forecefully on White's queenside, White is in dire straits. But, I love when they fall for sacrificing a knight at g5, after the rook life of f3! I saw it done, and have pulled it off against a few people. hehe

T

Joined
26 Apr 05
Moves
1462
Clock
22 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

Dutch people rock.

W
Angler

River City

Joined
08 Dec 04
Moves
16907
Clock
23 Sep 05
Vote Up
Vote Down

I've enjoyed playing against the Dutch. See http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/wulebgr/LeninDutch.pdf

Cookies help us deliver our Services. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.