Why is the Queens bishop such a pain in the A$$

~~robbie carrobie~~

Only Chess

12 Dec '11 19:02

PhySiQ
The Ghost Bishop
Joined
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Moves
877
16 Dec '11 06:15
Originally posted by iustus
Q i like your style please keep writing this stuffs ive never thought of any of these things when i play my games
Mr. iustus (a good latin name!) I would like to start by thanking you for your compliment. Sentiments like yours make it much more fulfilling to share! However I want to express some worry on behalf of your statement regarding thinking during your games. In a correspondence game you could certainly take these sorts of things into account. However at a board this type of consideration isn't overly valuable. My instruction was more for robbie's sake. Showing the power of the Queens bishop over the center when fianchettoed. Black holds the center down not with forceful occupation but instead by posting a "Ghost" on b7. It single handedly haunts whites position. My hope is that my explanations describe the problems a minor piece can present when properly utilized.

As I said, the b7 bishop is akin to a ghost. I don't expect my considerations with regards to time to be cogitated during a flesh and blood sequence. Instead focus on the liquidity of blacks defense! Understand that white can certainly shut down this singular piece. It is no baron of victory. Take the below example - even though black controls e4 well into the middlegame...and creates a great knight post there. White vaporizes this advantage and one of the greatest games ever played ends in a hard faught draw. Its the liquidity of blacks defense that is of value. I hope thats what you take away from my considerations!

EVENT St.Petersburg-1
SITE St.Petersburg-1
DATE 1914.??.??
ROUND ?
WHITE Ossip Bernstein
BLACK Aron Nimzowitsch
RESULT 1/2-1/2
WHITEELO ?
BLACKELO ?
ECO E12
EVENTDATE ?
Invert Board PGN Headers
[Event "St.Petersburg-1"]
[Site "St.Petersburg-1"]
[Date "1914.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[White "Ossip Bernstein"]
[Black "Aron Nimzowitsch"]
[ECO "E12"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "99"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 b6 4. Nc3 Bb7 5. e3 Bb4 6. Qb3 Qe7 7. a3 Bxc3+ 8. Qxc3 d6 9. b4 Nbd7 10. Bb2 a5 11. Be2 axb4 12. axb4 Rxa1+ 13. Bxa1 O-O 14. O-O Ne4 15. Qc2 f5 16. Nd2 Nxd2 17. Qxd2 Ra8 18. Bc3 Qe8 19. d5 e5 20. f4 Bc8 21. Qb2 Qe7 22. fxe5 Nxe5 23. Bd4 Bd7 24. Ra1 Re8 25. Ra7 Qd8 26. Qa1 f4 27. exf4 Ng6 28. Bf3 Nxf4 29. Bxg7 Qg5 30. Bh8 Nd3 31. h4 Qg3 32. Ra8 Bc8 33. Be4 Qf2+ 34. Kh2 Qxh4+ 35. Kg1 Ne5 36. Bxe5 Qxe4 37. Bh8 Qe3+ 38. Kh2 Qf4+ 39. Kg1 Qg3 40. Bc3 Qe3+ 41. Kh1 Qf4 42. Qd1 Qh6+ 43. Kg1 Qe3+ 44. Kh1 Qh6+ 45. Kg1 Qe3+ 46. Kh1 Qxc3 47. Rxc8 Rxc8 48. Qg4+ Kf7 49. Qxc8 Qxc4 50. Qf5+ 1/2-1/2
PhySiQ
The Ghost Bishop
Joined
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Moves
877
16 Dec '11 06:19
Originally posted by tomtom232
Maybe you'd consider authoring a rival blog to mister greenpawn34? 😉
Mr. tomtom! Thank you very much...but I'm no equal to Mr. Greenpawn. I just enjoy the game! But it does tickle me pink to hear that others are enthusiastic about my ramblings!

Q
~~robbie carrobie~~
Account suspended
Joined
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Moves
38239
16 Dec '11 09:162 edits
Originally posted by PhySiQ
Mr. tomtom! Thank you very much...but I'm no equal to Mr. Greenpawn. I just enjoy the game! But it does tickle me pink to hear that others are enthusiastic about my ramblings!

Q
dear great and illustrious Q, you do this measly peasant farmer an honour in this way,
the Capa game was crystal clear, the annotations shedding light as if a candle had
been lit in a darkened place and i truly thank you for them, i especially liked Capas
lack of materialism, how my heart leaped out of its socket, Capa take the skewered
rook! but Capa was having none of it and gently placed the 'ghost bishop', (perhaps
you have inadvertently coined a new phrase) back on the long diagonal from whence it
haunted the centre once more. I think i speak for all the chess enthusiasts Q, insight
like this is precious and to share it so openly and enthusiastically is reminiscent of the
great Tarrasch himself - kind regards Robbie.
tvochess
Joined
08 Apr '09
Moves
19509
16 Dec '11 09:20
Originally posted by PhySiQ
Mr. tomtom! Thank you very much...but I'm no equal to Mr. Greenpawn. I just enjoy the game! But it does tickle me pink to hear that others are enthusiastic about my ramblings!

Q
Hey Q,

no need to write a blog, if that's not your thing. But please keep sharing your experience and example games. Those are the things I read the chess forum for.

On topic: I have difficulties with both bishops. They are always on the wrong place, either inactive or under attack by pawns. I'm interested in fianchetto's, because that's a safe place for a bishop while being able to influence the game. However, mostly the bishop is blocked by pawns in the center (either mine or the opponent's). I like them more in the endgame though.
ChessPraxis
Cowboy From Hell
American West
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Moves
55013
16 Dec '11 17:15
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Why is the Queens bishop such a pain in the A$$
ALWAYS check your chair for stray chess pieces BEFORE you sit down.
If you think a QB hurts, try sitting on a K. 😞

My friend that plays the CK has also said the QB is a problematic piece. 😉
It's the nature of the game. 😉
~~robbie carrobie~~
Account suspended
Joined
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Moves
38239
17 Dec '11 00:261 edit
Originally posted by PhySiQ
Master Robbie - I have been in intense debate with myself as to expressing the worth of your queens bishop. Now I myself prefer its use in the QID. This being an opening I'm familiar with would like to share a classic with you. I'm assuming basic familiarity with the QID and fianchetto systems in general. One of the most dynamic defenses of the Colle syst exf5 31. fxe5 Re7 32. Re3 Qxb2 33. e6 dxe6 34. Rxe6 Kf7 0-1[/pgn]

Q
White cannot take with c3, or his two central pawns will require to much time to
defend. His pieces are built in the defence of e4...a square which blacks long term
hammer cannot be ignored...and deflates the value of his defenders

I cannot see this Q, cxd4 seems the natural move to me, black cannot gang up on the
d pawn
PhySiQ
The Ghost Bishop
Joined
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Moves
877
17 Dec '11 00:542 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
White cannot take with c3, or his two central pawns will require to much time to
defend. His pieces are built in the defence of e4...a square which blacks long term
hammer cannot be ignored...and deflates the value of his defenders

I cannot see this Q, cxd4 seems the natural move to me, black cannot gang up on the
d pawn
Fair enough robbie. Black doesn't need to gang up on the d pawn - its worthless on d4! If anything, white is going to want to play it to d5 soon... White is also in sudden jeopardy of losing his light squared bishop (further weakening e4) if that knight gets to d3!! Black will take control if that pawn leaves c3 (this is actually part of colle theory). Note who controls the c file if white elects to open it completely..

Invert Board PGN
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 b6 3. e3 Bb7 4. Nbd2 e6 5. Bd3 c5 6. O-O Nc6 7. c3 Be7 8. e4 cxd4 9. cxd4 Nb4 10. Bb1 Ba6 11. Re1 Rc8 0-1

Q
~~robbie carrobie~~
Account suspended
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17 Dec '11 01:12
Originally posted by PhySiQ
Fair enough robbie. Black doesn't need to gang up on the d pawn - its worthless on d4! If anything, white is going to want to play it to d5 soon... White is also in sudden jeopardy of losing his light squared bishop (further weakening e4) if that knight gets to d3!! Black will take control if that pawn leaves c3 (this is actually part of colle theory).

[ ...[text shortened]... e6 5. Bd3 c5 6. O-O Nc6 7. c3 Be7 8. e4 cxd4 9. cxd4 Nb4 10. Bb1 Ba6 11. Re1 Rc8 0-1[/pgn]

Q
this is why i am a grand patzer and your a genius, sigh!
PhySiQ
The Ghost Bishop
Joined
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Moves
877
17 Dec '11 01:151 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
this is why i am a grand patzer and your a genius, sigh!
Now now. I won't have you giving up that easy. I'll be writing GP34 to poke and prod you if you delight in quitting on yourself like this (from what I understand you live near one another?). I recommend going over some of the classics that are very well annotated Mr. Robbie.

My understanding is that you're a big Morphy fan...isn't that right?

Q
PhySiQ
The Ghost Bishop
Joined
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Moves
877
17 Dec '11 01:271 edit
The great Paul Morphy... tell me Robbie... what does his opening resemble? 😀
EVENT Paris, September
SITE Paris, September
DATE 1858.??.??
ROUND 5
WHITE Daniel Harrwitz
BLACK Paul Morphy
RESULT 0-1
WHITEELO ?
BLACKELO ?
ECO A84
EVENTDATE ?
Invert Board PGN Headers
[Event "Paris, September"]
[Site "Paris, September"]
[Date "1858.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "5"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Daniel Harrwitz"]
[Black "Paul Morphy"]
[ECO "A84"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "108"]

1.d4 f5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e3 O-O 6.Bd3 b6 7.Nge2
Bb7 8.O-O Nh5 9.Bxe7 Qxe7 10.Ng3 Nxg3 11.hxg3 d6 12.f4 Nc6
13.g4 Nb4 14.gxf5 exf5 15.Qd2 Rae8 16.Rae1 Qh4 17.Bb1 Re6
18.Qf2 Qh5 19.d5 Rh6 20.Qf3 Qh4 21.a3 Na6 22.b4 Nb8 23.Ne2 Nd7
24.Ng3 g6 25.Kf2 Nf6 26.Rh1 Ng4+ 27.Kg1 Qf6 28.Rxh6 Nxh6
29.Qd1 Ng4 30.Qd2 Qh4 31.Nf1 Re8 32.g3 Qh3 33.b5 Nf6 34.Qg2
Qxg2+ 35.Kxg2 a6 36.a4 axb5 37.axb5 Ra8 38.Nd2 Ra3 39.e4 fxe4
40.Nxe4 Nxe4 41.Bxe4 Rc3 42.Bf3 Kf7 43.Re4 Bc8 44.Be2 Bf5
45.Rd4 h5 46.Kf2 Kf6 47.Rd2 Bc2 48.Ke1 Be4 49.Kf2 Kf5 50.Ra2
h4 51.gxh4 Kxf4 52.Ra7 Rh3 53.Rxc7 Rh2+ 54.Ke1 Ke3 0-1

Now that is one of the greatest games ever played - this follow up is in my opinion the most important study for a youngling to encounter on the end of the game. It will teach more about rook endings than you will probably ever learn. Each time I play it, Capa takes my breath away. Watch the cuban work his magic (against my favorite annotater of all time 🙁) Now Robbie...what does the great Tartakower play? This game is well annotated and I don't dare muddle up such great work!
EVENT New York
SITE New York
DATE 1924.??.??
ROUND 06
WHITE Jose Raul Capablanca
BLACK Savielly Tartakower
RESULT 1-0
WHITEELO ?
BLACKELO ?
ECO A80
EVENTDATE ?
Invert Board PGN Headers Comments
[Event "New York"]
[Site "New York"]
[Date "1924.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "06"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Jose Raul Capablanca"]
[Black "Savielly Tartakower"]
[ECO "A80"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "104"]
1. d4 e6 2. Nf3 f5 3. c4 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. Nc3 O-O 6. e3 b6 7. Bd3 Bb7 8. O-O Qe8 9. Qe2 Ne4 10. Bxe7 Nxc3 11. bxc3 Qxe7 12. a4 Bxf3 13. Qxf3 Nc6 14. Rfb1 Rae8 15. Qh3 Rf6 16. f4 Na5 17. Qf3 d6 18. Re1 Qd7 19. e4 fxe4 20. Qxe4 g6 21. g3 Kf8 22. Kg2 Rf7 23. h4 d5 24. cxd5 exd5 25. Qxe8+ Qxe8 26. Rxe8+ Kxe8 27. h5! {This is the calamity--the Rook now enters the hostile camp. -- Alekhine} Rf6 28. hxg6 hxg6 29. Rh1 {White plays logically to utilize his advantage on the K-side and very properly does not concern himself with the weakness of the Q-side. Black, on the other hand, makes a defensive move which he could perhaps have omitted. -- Reti} Kf8 30. Rh7 Rc6 31. g4 {Anxious nature might have moved the King towards the queenside, but Capablanca adheres to the principle of aggression that governs rook endings. -- Reti} Nc4 32. g5 {He gives his opponent the opportunity of winning a pawn. But Capablanca has confidence in the passed pawn which he obtains. -- Reti} Ne3+ 33. Kf3 Nf5 34. Bxf5 {Simple and compelling. -- Alekhine} gxf5 35. Kg3! {Decisive! White sacrifices material in order to obtain the classical position with King on f6, pawn on g6, and Rook on h7, whereupon the black pawns tumble like ripe apples. -- Alekhine} Rxc3+ {It is extremely instructive to see how Capablanca is no longer in the least concerned about material equality, but thinks only of supporting his passed pawn. -- Reti} 36. Kh4 Rf3 37. g6 Rxf4+ 38. Kg5 Re4 39. Kf6 {It is a frequently available finesse in such positions not to capture hostile pawns, but to pass them by in order to be protected in the rear against checks by the rook. -- Reti} Kg8 40. Rg7+ Kh8 41. Rxc7 Re8 42. Kxf5 {Again the simplest. Kf7 would not yet have been disastrous because of Rd8, etc. -- Alekhine} Re4 43. Kf6 Rf4+ 44. Ke5 Rg4 45. g7+ Kg8 {After exchanging rooks, White would win still more easily. -- Alekhine} 46. Rxa7 Rg1 47. Kxd5 Rc1 48. Kd6 Rc2 49. d5 Rc1 50. Rc7 Ra1 51. Kc6 Rxa4 52. d6 {Capablanca's management of the endgame gives the impression of being so natural that one easily forgets the difficulty of such precise play. The difficulty is chiefly psychological. In chess, as in life, one is so accustomed to place value on the material factors that it is not easy to conceive the idea of indulging in pawn sacrifices when there is so little available material. --Reti} 1-0

Q
~~robbie carrobie~~
Account suspended
Joined
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Moves
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17 Dec '11 01:29
Originally posted by PhySiQ
Now now. I won't have you giving up that easy. I'll be writing GP34 to poke and prod you if you delight in quitting on yourself like this (from what I understand you live near one another?). I recommend going over some of the classics that are very well annotated Mr. Robbie.

My understanding is that you're a big Morphy fan...isn't that right?

Q
ahh dear Q when you have stared at the 64 squares for as long as I and yet cannot
unlock the majesties of the board one gets despondent. I live in the West of Scotland,
Glasgow, GP34 lives in th East, in the capital, Edinburgh, they are roughly fifty miles
apart, an hours drive on the motorway.

yes i love Morphy, but my favourite is Capa, his chess appears to me to be crystal clear.
tomtom232
Joined
15 Jun '06
Moves
16334
17 Dec '11 08:07
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Why is it? in the French defence it becomes purely passive, on the white side of the
Queens gambit its mince, in the Sicilian as black it gets swapped off on e6 , its always
causing problems, why is that?
The queens bishop is akin to a wild mustang... you must coax it... and if that doesn't work you must ride it till it is broken... besides, if it is problematic(bad) it is a great piece in my hands because I will trade that sucker for my opponents best piece.
ChessPraxis
Cowboy From Hell
American West
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Moves
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18 Dec '11 02:291 edit
Chuck Norris NEVER has a bad piece
ALL of his pieces are BAD
tomtom232
Joined
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Moves
16334
18 Dec '11 04:13
Originally posted by ChessPraxis
Chuck Norris NEVER has a bad piece
ALL of his pieces are BAD
You can't checkmate Chuck Norris because Chuck Norris' King will roundhouse your a$$.

EVENT	St.Petersburg-1
SITE	St.Petersburg-1
DATE	1914.??.??
ROUND	?
WHITE	Ossip Bernstein
BLACK	Aron Nimzowitsch
RESULT	1/2-1/2
WHITEELO	?
BLACKELO	?
ECO	E12
EVENTDATE	?

EVENT	Paris, September
SITE	Paris, September
DATE	1858.??.??
ROUND	5
WHITE	Daniel Harrwitz
BLACK	Paul Morphy
RESULT	0-1
WHITEELO	?
BLACKELO	?
ECO	A84
EVENTDATE	?

EVENT	New York
SITE	New York
DATE	1924.??.??
ROUND	06
WHITE	Jose Raul Capablanca
BLACK	Savielly Tartakower
RESULT	1-0
WHITEELO	?
BLACKELO	?
ECO	A80
EVENTDATE	?

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Why is the Queens bishop such a pain in the A$$