I hope you guys aren't getting too bored of all these French defense threads. 😉 It's just that I'm not so certain I want to play the classical anymore. Before, I thought that Black would have awkward defense after Qg4 and in general have to face a very tough White attack. Now, after looking through Watson's 1st edition Play the French and some databases, it seems that it isn't so bad after all. In fact, after 7... Qc7 (really fun) or O-O (not as fun but maybe better) I haven't found a variation that gives White a significant edge with best play. (And it seems White players fear the Winnawer much more)
So, what are the toughest lines for you in the Winnawer? How do you like it compared to Nf6 (Steinitz)?
Here's the starting position: 1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e5 Bxc3 5. a3 Bxc3 6. bxc3 Ne7 7. Qg4 (I think stronger than Nf3 because Nf3 isn't so great after Qa5)
(I want a diagram, but the computer with Fritz has problems with the internet right now.)
Funny this should come up, since I'm currently playing a game you can take a peak at:
Game 3381557
GAME IN PROGRESS!! so no comments on it
Once again, it really just comes down to style. Both are good.
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How sound is the poisoned pawn variation? I think after the position above you'd move 7...Nc6 8.Qxg7 Rg8. I think that's it anyway.
As for the line you posted above, I play quite a few games like that as black (play 3.Nd2 as white) and never really know what I'm doing. Usually end up delaying castling and bring the knight out to f5 and sometimes pawn to h5, hence the lack of castling early on the kingside. Will have to give this line a go though, I like the half open file with a rook already on it 🙂
Originally posted by exigentskyWell, I hope to dear god it doesn't turn out like my last french game 🙂 But I suppose it's too late to be saying that. Yeah, those people claiming the french is dull and boring are the ones who are playing the exchange lol.
OMG, you can do that?! :p That looks like a pretty awesome game. And people still say the French is boring? :p It seems like the 7. ...O-O can have more bite than I thought. (it's also recommended by Watson in the 3ed and probably a bit better objectively)
From my experiene, the French is all about taking the punishment in the early game, but dishing it out in large quantities later, provided you managed to survive 🙂. So you must have good defensive abilities, and attacking strength. Expect total warfare across the whole board in the winawer.
Originally posted by TheGambitWhat is your definition of sound? It is a complex variation somewhat akin to the najdorf in that each side has winning chances, but it could self-destruct on any side if you're not careful.
How sound is the poisoned pawn variation? I think after the position above you'd move 7...Nc6 8.Qxg7 Rg8. I think that's it anyway.
As for the line you posted above, I play quite a few games like that as black (play 3.Nd2 as white) and never really know what I'm doing. Usually end up delaying castling and bring the knight out to f5 and sometimes pawn ...[text shortened]... ll have to give this line a go though, I like the half open file with a rook already on it 🙂
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Originally posted by Zander 88I mean, have experts gone through the variations to see if it's playable at high level chess? I know that's not really applicable to my level of play, just wondering. Does it get played much at top level?
What is your definition of sound?
Originally posted by TheGambitThanks
Wow, that is one hell of a game you've got going there zander, a good advertisement for the French if I've ever seen one.
Look at the game I posted in the advance variation thread. That one is much more volatile. 🙄
Perhaps more of a deterrent to the French but, I did win 🙂
Very few people play the french at the very highest levels (top 20 world-class). I don't think this has anything to do with the stability of the defense, just not in modern fashion. Morozevich has been using the french frequently, but he usually plays the classical (Nf6 instead of Bb4).
Here is a game I found with known French expert Bareev winning against Topalov. Not poison pawn variation though.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1272446
I agree, I hope you will post it when it's done (hopefully this lifetime 😀).
BTW: The Winnawer, while fun is a lot of work. I'm going to start understanding the classical first and then maybe go to the Winnawer. But it's nice to know that there is another great move for me in case Nf6 leaves me wanting more.
Originally posted by TheGambitSorry to break in here, but the question got me curious even though it waill have no bearing on my play. I went through the Games Explorer in the Master games - 306 games reached move 7. Qg4 Qc7, and it seems to favour white - http://tinyurl.com/2eshg7
I mean, have experts gone through the variations to see if it's playable at high level chess? I know that's not really applicable to my level of play, just wondering. Does it get played much at top level?
Originally posted by st00p1dfac3This is normal for any Black opening. However the extent to which it favors White seems a bit high in the Game Explorer. Different databases (for example the Shredder database) give Black better results. It's also annoying that the Game Explorer does not give the average rating of the players for each move.
Sorry to break in here, but the question got me curious even though it waill have no bearing on my play. I went through the Games Explorer in the Master games - 306 games reached move 7. Qg4 Qc7, and it seems to favour white - http://tinyurl.com/2eshg7