Women and chess

My opinion is based on facts, i.e. (GOOGLE "MALE VS. FEMALE BRAINS" WHERE I FOUND THE FOLLOWING, AND MY COMMENTS IN CAPS AND PARENTHESIS


The Male Brain vs The Female Brain

Some interesting differences between men's and women's brains, collected from sources listed below. Read with a grain of salt, and further investigate the ones that get you riled up.

1. Men's brains are larger, but as they age, they also shrink faster than women's brains. (Source)

2. Women's brains operate at a higher temperature, due to burning more glucose. (Source)

3. Women use more of their brains when they think. (Source)

4. Men's brains contain roughly 6.5 times the amount of grey matter related to general intelligence as women's brains, while women's brains contain about 10 times as much white matter related to general intelligence as men's. Researchers point to this finding to explain the controversial belief that in general, men may naturally excel at math while women tend to excel in areas like language. Read more about this research here (WEBSITE HAS LINK HERE)

5. Men tend to score an average of 4 to 5 points higher on intelligence tests, as reported by the journal Intelligence in Sept. 2006. Don't believe us? Click here

6. The average man will think about sex as often as once a minute, while the average woman will think of sex much less often, as infrequently as once every one or two days. (Source)

7. Why do women always want to talk? Researchers have found that connecting with another through talking will trigger the pleasure centers in a woman's brain, a high second only to an orgasm. (Source)

8. Baby girls have been observed to typically have stronger reactions than boys to disturbing or distressful sounds. (Source)

9. A 20-second hug will trigger the release of oxytocin in a woman's brain. The effect of this chemical will often give the woman a feeling of trust in the person hugging her. (Source) (ED.: 20 SECONDS OF HUGGING FOR A MAN AND HE'S READY TO ROLL OVER AND GO TO SLEEP!)

10. Many authors and researchers have said that men use fewer words per day than women. Depending on which study you believe (if any), the "word gap" can be anywhere from 1,000 to 10,000 words a day. (Here's an interesting dissection of "word gap" claims at the Language Log.)

Sources: Sex on the Brain, Deborah Blum; The Female Brain, Louann Brizendine; University of California, Brown University and University of New Mexico research; www.livescience.com; www.cognews.com; www.tmcnet.com; www.quazen.com;

O.K., AFTER CONSIDERING ALL OF THE ABOVE, PLUS MORE, THE EVIDENCE IS THAT MEN THINK WITH THE RATIONAL, DEDUCTIVE AND LOGICAL SIDE OF THEIR BRAINS, WHILE WOMEN USE THE EMOTIONAL AND INTUITIVE SIDE. SO MEN HAVE AN INNATE BIOLOGICAL ADVANTAGE FOR CHESS GAMES ACCORDING TO THE FACTS!

Originally posted by Fleabitten
A good point. But why do you suppose less women take interest? Nature or nurture?

Good question! Sorry to say I don't have a clue.
🙄

Originally posted by bill718
Good question! Sorry to say I don't have a clue.
🙄

You can get a clue by reading the post right above yours.

Females allowed to conjecture here? Just venturing into RHP myself, and am still trying to remember the rules, never mind explore any sort of strategy, but maybe my experience will shed some light on the topic.
Why don't women in general have much interest in mastering chess? Well gosh it seems like a lot of work. After busting my ass at multiple jobs, diligently ignoring the piles of laundry, dishes and dust to make my way to the couch and finally put my feet up; I would really rather watch Survivor. I want to be entertained, have some fun, escape from my daily toils. Can a woman become the ultimate chess champion? Of course. right after an African American is elected president. Oh wait, what's this in the news? PS, Recumbant, don't believe everything you read on Google. I personally think about sex quite often throughout the day, but would not admit it to most people I know because I wouldn't want them to think I am "dirty". I do use too many words though. I bet you all stopped reading around Survivor and never made it to the part where I admitted that I too have an interest in sex. Too bad.

Originally posted by m00nshine
I think anyone can play chess, and play it at a advance level too. All it takes is dedication, practice and hard work. since in chess you use your brains as a weapon, and not you're physical strength.

just my opinion

Right, just as we can all be body builders like Arnold, we can all be GMs. Oh wait...

Anyway, whether or not men have an innate advantage in chess is debatable and can only apply to the average. Thus, even if it proves true, that does not exclude the possibility of a female player that is even stronger than all the men. Averages and individuals can be quite different. However, I expect that male dominance has much more to do with nurture than nature.

Originally posted by Busygirl
Females allowed to conjecture here? Just venturing into RHP myself, and am still trying to remember the rules, never mind explore any sort of strategy, but maybe my experience will shed some light on the topic.
Why don't women in general have much interest in mastering chess? Well gosh it seems like a lot of work. After busting my ass at multiple jobs ...[text shortened]... d never made it to the part where I admitted that I too have an interest in sex. Too bad.

I didn't stop reading after Survivor. That aside...

From your perspective as a woman, why do you suppose it is that less women particpate in the game than men?

Originally posted by Fleabitten
I didn't stop reading after Survivor. That aside...

From your perspective as a woman, why do you suppose it is that less women particpate in the game than men?

It might be a matter of tradition. Men having a bit of leisure time while the women prepare a meal and clean up afterwards. But, I have noticed that men do usually excel at math and chess....which seem to be related to each other somehow. My mother taught all four of her daughters to play chess. Only two of us were mildly interested enough to continue, however. I taught my children to play, but only one daughter is interested. She taught her two sons, and only one is interested. So there is alot of variation in people who actually care to take the time. I shall never attain a very good rating, but I enjoy the challenge. 77 and still learning the game.

Originally posted by Fleabitten
I didn't stop reading after Survivor. That aside...

From your perspective as a woman, why do you suppose it is that less women particpate in the game than men?

This may sound a little harsh, but here is my theory; young women learn in middle school that we have a choice. Display intelligence and be ignored by males, or be less of a threat and have a chance at reproduction. I don't know if other women would articulate the subtle social dance of puberty this way, but it was a choice I know I faced. I believe that it has been shown statistically that young girls before puberty are just as competent at math as boys of the same age and development. Once the hormones hit, we suddenly can't process the same data? Come on. Spend three years learning that when you successfully answer a question the guy in the corner with brown eyes isn't quite as friendly and you too will be less inclined to find satisfaction in academic excellence. Chess requires study to become very accomplished, and in most cases a woman is playing against members of the opposite sex. The learning curve is the same, but the reward at the end is tempered by the social /sexual risk which is much greater for a woman, and which makes each win less satisfying. Just a theory.

I've noticed in our chess club that at a young age boys and girls seem to have an equal interest in chess. However, when girls reach the age of about 11 or 12, they drop out completely and we never see them again while boys continue to be interested.

Originally posted by AttilaTheHorn
I've noticed in our chess club that at a young age boys and girls seem to have an equal interest in chess. However, when girls reach the age of about 11 or 12, they drop out completely and we never see them again while boys continue to be interested.

This would be anecdotal evidence in support of my theory. I would suggest that if you divide them into separate single sex teams the girls might last another year or two, but eventually they would still drop out. Mention you are a chess player in most circles, and you will raise the level of intelligence that the people you are speaking with think that you have. Even if they have not seen you play. Young women can't allow young men to think that they are too smart. Masking intelligence becomes a habit, which can haunt a woman throughout her life. Ever wonder why fewer women enter politics? I think because that one is a double whammy. To be a woman in politics implies that you are both intelligent and sexually promiscuous. Talk about counter intuitive! I wonder if internet chess, in fact, might encourage more women to become proficient at and enjoy chess, because of the ability to be anonymous.

Originally posted by Busygirl
This would be anecdotal evidence in support of my theory. I would suggest that if you divide them into separate single sex teams the girls might last another year or two, but eventually they would still drop out. Mention you are a chess player in most circles, and you will raise the level of intelligence that the people you are speaking with think that y ...[text shortened]... age more women to become proficient at and enjoy chess, because of the ability to be anonymous.

>I agree with your theory, which is why I gave my observations of what occurs in our chess club. I'm involved in teaching chess to young kids both at the club and in elementary schools, and I see girls lose interest in chess as soon as they discover that boys aren't the ugly creatures they once thought they were. Boys, once they discover that girls are attractive, don't lose interest in chess. I've tried everything I can think of to keep girls interested, but it's a losing battle. Once those hormones become active, chess receeds into the far distant past, and the chess club never sees them again.
>In addition, there's a strong aggressiveness to chess which appeals to boys, but is distasteful to the nature of femininity.

Males tend to score higher on tests of problem solving and spacial ability. Interestingly, women with high testosterone levels tend to score better than women with low testosterone levels, though the same doesn't seem to hold true for men.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
You're a man, Eladar (I think), and you will most probably never win a Chess World Championchip.
What conclusion can we have from the above?

That Eladar cannot compete with the very best chess players. Your point?

Originally posted by recumbent
My opinion is based on facts, i.e. (GOOGLE "MALE VS. FEMALE BRAINS" WHERE I FOUND THE FOLLOWING, AND MY COMMENTS IN CAPS AND PARENTHESIS


The Male Brain vs The Female Brain

Some interesting differences between men's and women's brains, collected from sources listed below. Read with a grain of salt, and further investigate the ones that get you rile HAVE AN INNATE BIOLOGICAL ADVANTAGE FOR CHESS GAMES ACCORDING TO THE FACTS!

My opinion is based on facts,

Well, perhaps on currently or recently accepted facts. Especially in such grey areas as psychology.
I bought a book yesterday which I'e been after for a while in which the great chess player (if not at first look the great psycho-analyst) Rueben Fine explains that men play because "...it certainly touches on the conflicts surrounding aggression, homosexuality, masturbation and narcissism..."!

This is taken from a book published in 1967, based on an article from 1956. I'm not about to check out all your references, but be aware that the currently popular thinking might well be popularly laughable in the next 10-20-50 years.



"O.K., AFTER CONSIDERING ALL OF THE ABOVE, PLUS MORE, THE EVIDENCE IS THAT MEN THINK WITH THE RATIONAL, DEDUCTIVE AND LOGICAL SIDE OF THEIR BRAINS, WHILE WOMEN USE THE EMOTIONAL AND INTUITIVE SIDE. SO MEN HAVE AN INNATE BIOLOGICAL ADVANTAGE FOR CHESS GAMES ACCORDING TO THE FACTS!"

Well, I'd have to say that is one possible interpretation of the information you have selected to back up what is a hugely questionable assertion. But you haven't taken sociological factors such as the historical position of women in society, the domestic burden which does tend to get left to the women (please don't anybody tell my partner I admitted that one!) into account.

For what it's worth, my own opinion, formed over several years of playing chess in uncomfortable settings, often after a long day at work, and giving myself far more stress than is conducive to a 'relaxing hobby'- I have come to the conclusion that more men than women play chess because we men have less common-sense than women....😕

As an aside, I once played Judit Polgar online in a 3 minutes each way game. When she checkmated me I had less than 10 seconds left, she had used 12! There's at least one woman who knows how to play chess properly!

Your comparison with Judith Polgar is equivalent to me saying that I played against a woman in the WNBA and she schooled me. From that butt whooping I draw the conclusion that she should be playing the the NBA.

Many people make this fallacy. If you are going to compare the very best women, then you need to compare them to their male counterparts.