# Double Stalemate

GregM
Posers and Puzzles 15 Feb '07 22:53
1. 15 Feb '07 22:53
(Not sure if this problem has been posed elsewhere)

Find a position in which, if white is to move, white is stalemated, and if black is to move, black is stalemated. That is, find a position in which neither side has any legal moves. Your position must be reachable by legal play from the starting position.

It took me a while to find a solution to this one when I posed it to myself today. I imagine others will be quicker.
2. 15 Feb '07 23:12
Here is one:

3. 15 Feb '07 23:161 edit
And here is my joke solution:

"If white is to move, white is stalemated" is true, since "if A then B" is true if A is always false.
4. BigDoggProblem
Court Jester
15 Feb '07 23:52
Originally posted by GregM
(Not sure if this problem has been posed elsewhere)

Find a position in which, if white is to move, white is stalemated, and if black is to move, black is stalemated. That is, find a position in which neither side has any legal moves. Your position must be reachable by legal play from the starting position.

It took me a while to find a solution to this one when I posed it to myself today. I imagine others will be quicker.
Double stalemate is only a matter of locked pawns here and there. Here's one with only 7 units on the board:

Either side could have moved last (obviously).
5. 16 Feb '07 01:54
Here are two related positions.
All 32 pieces in a legal position, and only one piece can move:
6. 16 Feb '07 01:55
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Double stalemate is only a matter of locked pawns here and there. Here's one with only 7 units on the board:

[fen]k7/P1p5/K1p5/P1P5/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1[/fen]

Either side could have moved last (obviously).
I don't see how black could have moved last... can you point out a "legal" move for me. I may be just missing it.
7. 16 Feb '07 01:56
All 32 pieces in a legal position, and there are only 2 possible moves:

8. 16 Feb '07 01:591 edit
Originally posted by strokem1
I don't see how black could have moved last... can you point out a "legal" move for me. I may be just missing it.
Black's last move was Kb8-a8 (after a capture by white pawn a7), or d7xc6.
9. 16 Feb '07 02:30
Originally posted by David113
Black's last move was Kb8-a8 (after a capture by white pawn a7), or d7xc6.
Ok. Thats what I thought black's last move but I couldn't see how that was possible to get the pawn there. I completely forgot about it could have captured to get there. thanks for pointing that out.
10. BigDoggProblem
Court Jester
16 Feb '07 17:19

Down to only 6 units, and still either side could have moved last. Can anyone do it with even less pieces?
11. BigDoggProblem
Court Jester
16 Feb '07 17:37

Another promising matrix, but still 6 pieces.
12. 16 Feb '07 18:31

There you go, 5 pieces. The position seems possible - could've arisen after such moves as 1. Ke1 exf 2. Kf1
13. BigDoggProblem
Court Jester
16 Feb '07 18:351 edit
Originally posted by kbaumen
[fen]8/8/8/8/8/5p2/5p1p/5K1k w - - 0 1[/fen]

There you go, 5 pieces. The position seems possible - could've arisen after such moves as 1. Ke1 exf 2. Kf1
That's not quite a double stalemate - White has 1.Kxf2.

You can correct it by adding bBg1, but then it only ties the record.
14. 16 Feb '07 18:381 edit
Ooops, sorry. But adding the bishop would be nice, because then the solution would include not only kings and pawns. Eh, got to think some little bit more.
15. 19 Feb '07 15:342 edits
Not an answer to the question, but..

I like the double pin.