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Posers and Puzzles

Posers and Puzzles

  1. 22 Dec '08 01:26
    Three gods A , B , and C are called, in some order, True, False, and
    Random. True always speaks truly, False always speaks falsely, but whether Random speaks truly or falsely is a completely random matter. Your task is to determine the identities of A , B , and C by asking three yes-no questions; each question must be put to exactly one god. The gods understand English, but will answer in their own language, in which the words for yes and no are "da" and "ja", in some order. You do not know which word means which.
  2. Standard member forkedknight
    Defend the Universe
    22 Dec '08 05:51
    This puzzle is flawed, there is no True God.
  3. 31 Dec '08 19:35 / 3 edits
    finding C is easy, just ask every god the same question again and again

    the you ask both gods if they're A, the answer you get means 'yes'

    then you ask the other 2 gods if they're C, now you now who is lying

    EDIT: ow, I can ask 3 questions only
  4. 01 Jan '09 14:38
    There is no guaranteed way to eliminate any of the three as being Random (I call him Chaos for now).

    Chaos can always answer as either Truth or as Deception.

    The only way to be sure that one is not Chaos is for another to answer both as Truth, and as Deception, but there is no clever way to force this in any number of questions (although certainly the more questions, the greater the chance Chaos will out himself.)
  5. 01 Jan '09 15:57
    Originally posted by geepamoogle
    There is no guaranteed way to eliminate any of the three as being Random (I call him Chaos for now).

    Chaos can always answer as either Truth or as Deception.

    The only way to be sure that one is not Chaos is for another to answer both as Truth, and as Deception, but there is no clever way to force this in any number of questions (although certainly the more questions, the greater the chance Chaos will out himself.)
    It is very possible to force this. You ask a question like 'are there 3 gods?'

    A) da
    B) ja
    C) ja

    Now you know B or C is Chaos, so you can simply ask A who is Chaos; you only need to know what the answers mean and if A is Truth ot not.
  6. 01 Jan '09 16:18
    You can only ask yes-no questions.
  7. 01 Jan '09 16:59 / 1 edit
    Chaos, though, does not have any rules by which you can identify it. That makes any potential line of questioning problematic, especially since each question must be put to one god at a time.

    In order to be certain, the first thing is to determine which is Chaos, and finding Truth and Deception from there is child's play (as well as the meaning of "ja" and "da"
  8. 01 Jan '09 20:36
    Originally posted by geepamoogle
    Chaos, though, does not have any rules by which you can identify it. That makes any potential line of questioning problematic, especially since each question must be put to one god at a time.

    In order to be certain, the first thing is to determine which is Chaos, and finding Truth and Deception from there is child's play (as well as the meaning of "ja" and "da"
    I think we should check what 'da'means and who is Truth or Deception. Then truth/deception can tell us who is Chaos
  9. 03 Jan '09 15:17 / 1 edit
    "If I were to ask you what 2+2 is, would you say 4?"
    Truth says yes
    Liar says yes
    Chaos says something.
    "Does 2+2=4?"
    Truth says yes
    Liar says no
    Chaos says something

    Now, if only one person has repeated, that person is the truth teller. If two people have repeated, the one who hasn't is the liarn. The rest is trivial.

    Argh, sorry. Only allowed 3 questions. I asked... 7.... Well, we need to cut that down a bit XD
  10. 04 Jan '09 02:15 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by doodinthemood
    "If I were to ask you what 2+2 is, would you say 4?"
    Truth says yes
    Liar says yes
    Chaos says something.
    "Does 2+2=4?"
    Truth says yes
    Liar says no
    Chaos says something

    Now, if only one person has repeated, that person is the truth teller. If two people have repeated, the one who hasn't is the liarn. The rest is trivial.

    Argh, sorry. Only allowed 3 questions. I asked... 7.... Well, we need to cut that down a bit XD
    Very clever..

    So once you discover the identity of one non-Chaos, you can use them to find out everything else. Will have to pursue this line..
  11. 04 Jan '09 11:37 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by geepamoogle
    So once you discover the identity of one non-Chaos, you can use them to find out everything else.
    yes, the problem is that that costs 3 questions

    After question 2 we still don't know anything and if we have all answers we have to think.
    This seems rather impossible, since we don't know what the answers mean
  12. 04 Jan '09 12:39
    What about this:

    God A, is god B Chaos?
    da
    God A, are you sure about your previous answer
    now, 2 answers are possible, da or ja

    if da and if da=yes, then
    God A is Chaos or
    God A is Truth and God B is Chaos

    if da and if da=no, then
    God A is Chaos or
    God A is Deception and God B is Chaos

    if ja and if da=yes, then
    God A is Chaos or
    God A is Deception and God B is Truth

    if ja and if da=no, then
    God A is Chaos or
    God A is Truth and God B is Deception

    now we're allowed to ask 1 question more
  13. 04 Jan '09 12:55 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Thomaster
    What about this:

    God A, is god B Chaos?
    da
    God A, are you sure about your previous answer
    now, 2 answers are possible, da or ja

    if da and if da=yes, then
    God A is Chaos or
    God A is Truth and God B is Chaos

    if da and if da=no, then
    God A is Chaos or
    God A is Deception and God B is Chaos

    if ja and if da=yes, then
    God A is Chaos or
    God A ...[text shortened]... is Chaos or
    God A is Truth and God B is Deception

    now we're allowed to ask 1 question more
    if the answers are the same, C cannot be Chaos, so then we have to ask him the third question
    if the answers are different, B cannot be Chaos, then we have to ask him the third question
  14. 05 Jan '09 09:46 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Thomaster
    if the answers are the same, C cannot be Chaos, so then we have to ask him the third question
    if the answers are different, B cannot be Chaos, then we have to ask him the third question
    very nice line of reasoning! the final question to ask, i think, (whichever of B or C is not Chaos) is: "which word would god A tell me means 'yes'?" whichever one he tells you - ja or da, that word means NO. from there it can be verified whether god A was Deception or Truth from the first two rounds of questioning.
  15. 05 Jan '09 11:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Aetherael
    very nice line of reasoning! the final question to ask, i think, (whichever of B or C is not Chaos) is: "which word would god A tell me means 'yes'?" whichever one he tells you - ja or da, that word means NO. from there it can be verified whether god A was Deception or Truth from the first two rounds of questioning.
    not if A is Chaos

    Ask 'Are you Truth?' if you want to know what means yes, but I don't think it will help us much