Logic.

ketch90
Posers and Puzzles 22 Dec '08 01:26
1. 22 Dec '08 01:26
Three gods A , B , and C are called, in some order, True, False, and
Random. True always speaks truly, False always speaks falsely, but whether Random speaks truly or falsely is a completely random matter. Your task is to determine the identities of A , B , and C by asking three yes-no questions; each question must be put to exactly one god. The gods understand English, but will answer in their own language, in which the words for yes and no are "da" and "ja", in some order. You do not know which word means which.
2. forkedknight
Defend the Universe
22 Dec '08 05:51
This puzzle is flawed, there is no True God. ðŸ˜›
3. 31 Dec '08 19:353 edits
finding C is easy, just ask every god the same question again and again

the you ask both gods if they're A, the answer you get means 'yes'

then you ask the other 2 gods if they're C, now you now who is lying

EDIT: ow, I can ask 3 questions only
4. 01 Jan '09 14:38
There is no guaranteed way to eliminate any of the three as being Random (I call him Chaos for now).

Chaos can always answer as either Truth or as Deception.

The only way to be sure that one is not Chaos is for another to answer both as Truth, and as Deception, but there is no clever way to force this in any number of questions (although certainly the more questions, the greater the chance Chaos will out himself.)
5. 01 Jan '09 15:57
Originally posted by geepamoogle
There is no guaranteed way to eliminate any of the three as being Random (I call him Chaos for now).

Chaos can always answer as either Truth or as Deception.

The only way to be sure that one is not Chaos is for another to answer both as Truth, and as Deception, but there is no clever way to force this in any number of questions (although certainly the more questions, the greater the chance Chaos will out himself.)
It is very possible to force this. You ask a question like 'are there 3 gods?'

A) da
B) ja
C) ja

Now you know B or C is Chaos, so you can simply ask A who is Chaos; you only need to know what the answers mean and if A is Truth ot not.
6. 01 Jan '09 16:18
You can only ask yes-no questions.
7. 01 Jan '09 16:591 edit
Chaos, though, does not have any rules by which you can identify it. That makes any potential line of questioning problematic, especially since each question must be put to one god at a time.

In order to be certain, the first thing is to determine which is Chaos, and finding Truth and Deception from there is child's play (as well as the meaning of "ja" and "da"ðŸ˜‰
8. 01 Jan '09 20:36
Originally posted by geepamoogle
Chaos, though, does not have any rules by which you can identify it. That makes any potential line of questioning problematic, especially since each question must be put to one god at a time.

In order to be certain, the first thing is to determine which is Chaos, and finding Truth and Deception from there is child's play (as well as the meaning of "ja" and "da"ðŸ˜‰
I think we should check what 'da'means and who is Truth or Deception. Then truth/deception can tell us who is Chaos
9. 03 Jan '09 15:171 edit
"If I were to ask you what 2+2 is, would you say 4?"
Truth says yes
Liar says yes
Chaos says something.
"Does 2+2=4?"
Truth says yes
Liar says no
Chaos says something

Now, if only one person has repeated, that person is the truth teller. If two people have repeated, the one who hasn't is the liarn. The rest is trivial.

Argh, sorry. Only allowed 3 questions. I asked... 7.... Well, we need to cut that down a bit XD
10. 04 Jan '09 02:151 edit
Originally posted by doodinthemood
"If I were to ask you what 2+2 is, would you say 4?"
Truth says yes
Liar says yes
Chaos says something.
"Does 2+2=4?"
Truth says yes
Liar says no
Chaos says something

Now, if only one person has repeated, that person is the truth teller. If two people have repeated, the one who hasn't is the liarn. The rest is trivial.

Argh, sorry. Only allowed 3 questions. I asked... 7.... Well, we need to cut that down a bit XD
Very clever..

So once you discover the identity of one non-Chaos, you can use them to find out everything else. Will have to pursue this line..
11. 04 Jan '09 11:371 edit
Originally posted by geepamoogle
So once you discover the identity of one non-Chaos, you can use them to find out everything else.
yes, the problem is that that costs 3 questions

After question 2 we still don't know anything and if we have all answers we have to think.
This seems rather impossible, since we don't know what the answers mean
12. 04 Jan '09 12:39

God A, is god B Chaos?
da
now, 2 answers are possible, da or ja

if da and if da=yes, then
God A is Chaos or
God A is Truth and God B is Chaos

if da and if da=no, then
God A is Chaos or
God A is Deception and God B is Chaos

if ja and if da=yes, then
God A is Chaos or
God A is Deception and God B is Truth

if ja and if da=no, then
God A is Chaos or
God A is Truth and God B is Deception

now we're allowed to ask 1 question more
13. 04 Jan '09 12:551 edit
Originally posted by Thomaster

God A, is god B Chaos?
da
now, 2 answers are possible, da or ja

if da and if da=yes, then
God A is Chaos or
God A is Truth and God B is Chaos

if da and if da=no, then
God A is Chaos or
God A is Deception and God B is Chaos

if ja and if da=yes, then
God A is Chaos or
God A ...[text shortened]... is Chaos or
God A is Truth and God B is Deception

now we're allowed to ask 1 question more
if the answers are the same, C cannot be Chaos, so then we have to ask him the third question
if the answers are different, B cannot be Chaos, then we have to ask him the third question
14. 05 Jan '09 09:461 edit
Originally posted by Thomaster
if the answers are the same, C cannot be Chaos, so then we have to ask him the third question
if the answers are different, B cannot be Chaos, then we have to ask him the third question
very nice line of reasoning! the final question to ask, i think, (whichever of B or C is not Chaos) is: "which word would god A tell me means 'yes'?" whichever one he tells you - ja or da, that word means NO. from there it can be verified whether god A was Deception or Truth from the first two rounds of questioning.
15. 05 Jan '09 11:491 edit
Originally posted by Aetherael
very nice line of reasoning! the final question to ask, i think, (whichever of B or C is not Chaos) is: "which word would god A tell me means 'yes'?" whichever one he tells you - ja or da, that word means NO. from there it can be verified whether god A was Deception or Truth from the first two rounds of questioning.
not if A is Chaos

Ask 'Are you Truth?' if you want to know what means yes, but I don't think it will help us much