Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Posers and Puzzles

Posers and Puzzles

  1. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    27 Oct '07 03:46
    There is a theory going round that our universe which came from the big bang, our whole universe is just the other side of what we call black holes.
    If that is the case, then maybe there are different laws in smaller black holes, say from regular giant stars that collapse past the neutron star state to go on to make black holes, so maybe there is a threshold of mass for the resulting daughter universe that needs to happen in order for a universe to be friendly to our kind of life form. Say it can only happen in the giant black holes massing millions of suns that can have our particular speed of light or our particular gravitational constant and so forth that allows life like we know it to exist. I also wonder if, as the case may be with galaxy size black holes, those like in the center of our galaxy containing millions of stellar masses, it seems likely to have accrued that mass through black holes colliding. So maybe phenomena like the accelerating expansion rate of the universe could be explained by the original black hole giving rise to our universe collided with another black hole and changing the inflation rate in the middle of our expansion. So there you have it folks, my totally 1/4 baked idea de jure.
  2. 04 Nov '07 16:48
    Black holes can't collide and meld, they would collide and destroy each other. Only finite-gravity bodies can meld when they collide. Also, judging by the fact that the actual black hole is a single particle that sucks in the rest of the universe, the chances of two black holes colliding in the first place are very, very small. For it to be happening throughout the universe as we post is next to impossible.
  3. 04 Nov '07 17:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Black holes can't collide and meld, they would collide and destroy each other. Only finite-gravity bodies can meld when they collide. Also, judging by the fact that the actual black hole is a single particle that sucks in the rest of the universe, the chances of two black holes colliding in the first place are very, very small. For it to be happening throughout the universe as we post is next to impossible.
    Black holes can't collide and meld...

    I think they can. Hence the million sun mass black holes in the center of spiral galaxies.

    ...the actual black hole is a single particle that sucks in the rest of the universe...

    There are black holes out there now, and the rest of the universe is still intact, isn't it?

    ... the chances of two black holes colliding in the first place are very, very small.

    But still it happens. There is no way a million sun mass black hole can be formed in only one go.

    We do believe in black holes, are we?
  4. Standard member Lukerik
    Stick your hands up
    06 Nov '07 00:52
    Theoretically two black holes can collide and coalesce, though coalesce is probably the wrong word...

    As a body contracts the surface gravity becomes so intense that eventually the escape velocity equals the speed of light. This is called the Schwarzschild radius. The zero point at the centre is called the Schwarzschild singularity.

    Let's imagine two black holes, and for simplicity's sake the first is stationary and the second is on a collision course. If we could watch the second as it fell in we would see it we would see it grow dimmer and dimmer as it moved more and more slowly. It would freeze at the Schwarzschild radius where it also blacks out. From our point of view the two holes have now coalesced. From the point of view of the second hole though, the distance before it would expand as it continued to fall, so that it falls forever and never reaches the centre.
  5. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    06 Nov '07 07:50
    Originally posted by Lukerik
    Theoretically two black holes can collide and coalesce, though coalesce is probably the wrong word...

    As a body contracts the surface gravity becomes so intense that eventually the escape velocity equals the speed of light. This is called the Schwarzschild radius. The zero point at the centre is called the Schwarzschild singularity.

    Let's imagine two ...[text shortened]... t would expand as it continued to fall, so that it falls forever and never reaches the centre.
    The problem with this visualization is the laws of physics as we know it breaks down when we talk about extremes like black holes. The deeper we know the universe and how it works the more it looks like we don't know jack about black holes right now, for instance, the thing about the singularity being infinite density. That statement in itself just confirms we don't know what we are talking about because infinite density just won't happen in the real world. It is only our dim understanding of physics and the math of physics at this point in time in our scientific development that says such a thing. Newer theories or conjectures show the singularity to not have infinite density and can lead to new universes being formed from our universe, possibly ad infinitum.
  6. 06 Nov '07 09:05
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    The problem with this visualization is the laws of physics as we know it breaks down when we talk about extremes like black holes. The deeper we know the universe and how it works the more it looks like we don't know jack about black holes right now, for instance, the thing about the singularity being infinite density. That statement in itself just confirms ...[text shortened]... density and can lead to new universes being formed from our universe, possibly ad infinitum.
    I am one of those who don't believe in singularities in black holes, nor in Big bang at t=0. I think the formulaes give this result because they are formulated with a limited knowledge.

    The singularities is a hard nut to crack, and is responsible that quantum theory and relativity don't match there. String theory and quantum gravity theory has a seed of solution. Time will tell.
  7. 09 Nov '07 00:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    [b]Black holes can't collide and meld...

    I think they can. Hence the million sun mass black holes in the center of spiral galaxies.

    ...the actual black hole is a single particle that sucks in the rest of the universe...

    There are black holes out there now, and the rest of the universe is still intact, isn't it?

    ... the chances ...[text shortened]... ion sun mass black hole can be formed in only one go.

    We do believe in black holes, are we?
    The black holes technically don't have the mass of the sun; the actual black hole is defined as an infinitesimally small particle of infinite mass. Everything else is just what the black hole takes in. By the rest of the universe, I meant the area surrounding the black hole, and, if it survives long enough, then the rest of the universe. And no, the universe is not intact, that's why there are black holes to begin with. Sorry about the bold; my computer is acting funny.
  8. 09 Nov '07 02:43
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Sorry about the bold; my computer is acting funny
    your computer just makes your RHP posts bold? It's not a key like the capslock that can get stuck on.
  9. 09 Nov '07 06:12
    Originally posted by scherzo
    The black holes technically don't have the mass of the sun; the actual black hole is defined as an infinitesimally small particle of infinite mass. Everything else is just what the black hole takes in. By the rest of the universe, I meant the area surrounding the black hole, and, if it survives long enough, then the rest of the universe. And no, the u ...[text shortened]... 's why there are black holes to begin with. Sorry about the bold; my computer is acting funny.
    Of course black holse possess mass. Wikipedia says as only one source among many (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole)
    "Stellar-mass black holes have masses ranging from about 1.5-3.0 solar masses (the Tolman-Oppenheimer-Volkoff limit) to 15 solar masses."

    If you rediefine "Universe" as the area surrounding a black hole, what do you call all the rest other people call Universe?
  10. 09 Nov '07 11:41
    Originally posted by scherzo
    The black holes technically don't have the mass of the sun; the actual black hole is defined as an infinitesimally small particle of infinite mass.
    Don't you mean infinite density?

    In which case, mathematically, you can still have finite mass. Ever heard of a delta-function?
  11. 11 Nov '07 07:12
    Originally posted by scherzo
    The black holes technically don't have the mass of the sun; the actual black hole is defined as an infinitesimally small particle of infinite mass.

    No, it isn't.
  12. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    11 Nov '07 16:46
    Originally posted by mtthw
    Don't you mean infinite density?

    In which case, mathematically, you can still have finite mass. Ever heard of a delta-function?
    And of course the thing about 'infinite density' is our science is just not evolved enough to eliminate those pesky infinities in our math. I firmly believe the density is finite inside a black hole and I also believe the theories that say our universe is the other side of a black hole from some other even larger universe, in the multiverse concept. It just makes sense, that when we project back in time and see we came out of a huge 'explosion' and we see black holes, well not see exactly, but observe there must be black holes, then it seems reasonable to suppose the other side of the black hole is another universe forming. The only thing I wonder about is when black holes from our universe merge, what effect does that have on the new universe forming inside? That is the main point of my 'conjecture', it may show up in an expansion of the expansion.
  13. 11 Nov '07 17:20
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    And of course the thing about 'infinite density' is our science is just not evolved enough to eliminate those pesky infinities in our math. I firmly believe the density is finite inside a black hole and I also believe the theories that say our universe is the other side of a black hole from some other even larger universe, in the multiverse concept. It just ...[text shortened]... hat is the main point of my 'conjecture', it may show up in an expansion of the expansion.
    These are interesting thoughts.

    You think that our universe has a parent, and ours have one child universe for each black hole we have in our universe, right?

    Do you then think that there is a possibilty that we can travel from universe to universe through black holes, given that we have the technology not to be crushed in the journey?
  14. 11 Nov '07 23:54
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    ...our universe which came from the big bang...
    I stopped reading when I got right about here...
  15. Subscriber sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    12 Nov '07 05:53
    Originally posted by rubberjaw30
    I stopped reading when I got right about here...
    Well, maybe I should have said, 'our universe which purportedly came from the big bang'. Sorry, that is just a theory and other theories are being cast about also. But my thing is IF the universe came from a big bang and big bangs are just the other end of a black hole in a larger universe......