Perpetual Motion Discovered?

Originally posted by XZantoth
Possibly... but if so, then where did that come from?

I don't know. Why did it have to "come from" anywhere?

Originally posted by crazyblue
Just another weird thought: We (humans) give heat to our environment all the time (at least when its not super hot outside or so). cant that heat be used/absorbed by a device/suit somehow and be transformed into engery that a cellphone or mp3-player or so can use to run or reload or so? has something like that been done already? i dont think i would be the first person to think of such a thing 😉

I've never heard of body heat being used, except for clothing that traps it to keep you warm, but kinetic watches use the movement from an arm to wind themselves.
(google kinetic watch and you'll find a few)

Phil.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
In these 'inventions' of perpetuum mobile, the net energy gained must come from somewhere. Energy can't just be produced from nothing. So if it comes from somewhere it is not a perpetuum mobile.

Many 'inventions' of perpetuum mobile has been presented by hobby geniuses and none of these has been true perpetuum mobiles. No one have been even close to extract energy from nothing ever. Not even theoretically.

We're all well aware of the principle of conservation of energy, but did you read the article?
The whole point is that these guys have spent €8,000,000 of their own money to pay scientists to test their machine, which they claim defies that principle. The whole point is that according to these guys, the conservation of energy may be a flawed concept, and they're certainly putting their money where their mouth is...
As for no one ever extracting energy from 'nowhere', well, these guys seem to think they're the first.

Well things aren't looking good for them... they've put the demo on hold: http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/07/06/steorn/

Originally posted by MrPhil
I've never heard of body heat being used, except for clothing that traps it to keep you warm, but kinetic watches use the movement from an arm to wind themselves.
(google kinetic watch and you'll find a few)

Phil.

I've heard of body heat being used for something. There was a seat cushion that did something powered by the heat from your butt, but I can't remember what it actually did. Let me see if I can find it.

Nope. Oh well.

EDIT - Here's something:

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6075199.html

Originally posted by XZantoth
All energy and matter came from the Big Bang. Using physics, there is no way to know what happened before the Big Bang or where all the energy/matter came from. Scientists have a good idea what happened the second after, but there is no way to gather information before that. (I could be wrong on all this, but I don't think I am) The only answer I know of is God. If you don't believe in God, good luck finding another solution.

Saying God created the Big Bang is hardly a solution! It's what our caveman ancestors did in response to where did the caves come from. It's what the church said in response to where did the earth and stars come from.

There is NO EVIDENCE for God.

Take the religious discussion to the Spirituality Forum.
Let this Forum be a god less Forum please.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Saying God created the Big Bang is hardly a solution! It's what our caveman ancestors did in response to where did the caves come from. It's what the church said in response to where did the earth and stars come from.

There is NO EVIDENCE for God.

All I'm saying is that there is no evidence otherwise either and that none can possibly be found using physics as we know it today. Sorry I said the "G" word outside of the spirituality forum.

Originally posted by XZantoth
All I'm saying is that there is no evidence otherwise either and that none can possibly be found using physics as we know it today. Sorry I said the "G" word outside of the spirituality forum.

There is no evidence that bunnies are incapable of developing nuclear technology; no evidence that every other planet in the universe supported life of some type at one time; no evidence that every car built in Detroit can 'transform' into robots because of some mysterious energy.

No evidence of any of those things!

You DO have to explain where your singularity came from, unless you are going to say it was always there. But then you have to explain the rate at which the Universe is expanding (far too fast to ever contract upon itself again as I understand it), which means this all must have been a one off event and not an infinitely repeating one. You can't create something from nothing, so you are back at the same point - where did everything come from?

And phooey to not being able to say God on this forum. You can say chess on the spirituality forum 😛 What are you afraid of? The next thing they'll do is stop people praying in schools... oh wait.

Originally posted by t0lkien
And phooey to not being able to say God on this forum. You can say chess on the spirituality forum 😛 What are you afraid of? The next thing they'll do is stop people praying in schools... oh wait.

You are probably referring to me when you say phooey. And the simple answer of why religious matters shouldn't be discussed here at Posers and Puzzles Forum is to be found at the Spiritual Forum itself - endless debates with massive off topics and flaming.

You really want to discuss how *** created the universe? Then go to the Spirituality Forum and pose the question there - and you will probably understand why I don't want religious matters discussed here.

But if you ask where did the universe really came from in the first place and hold the religion out of here then I will gladly tell you tell you.

Originally posted by t0lkien
...And phooey to not being able to say God on this forum. You can say chess on the spirituality forum 😛 What are you afraid of? The next thing they'll do is stop people praying in schools... oh wait.

This isn't the chess forum either.

Originally posted by t0lkien
You can't create something from nothing, so you are back at the same point - where did everything come from?

um, I would prefer personally if we kept the wide ranging philosophical bits out of it, they tend to rely on personal conviction whichever side you're on, and the point of the thread was to discuss, preferably without resorting to ***, or the *** bang 😛, the possibility that these guys have actually shown that something can come from nothing. Preferably from a scientific point of view.
The premise of course is that this experiment claims to disprove the principle of conservation of energy. we cannot discard that possibility until we have seen the evidence, so in the meantime, if we could discuss how such a device may work etc. that might be a little more enlightening than digging theological trenches.

Still no word from Steorn on this ... maybe the project just ran out of steam?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Still no word from Steorn on this ... maybe the project just ran out of steam?

Probably out of steam, or financial support.

Whenever someone says "Look, I've Discovered Perpetual Motion!", we all says "No, it's not possible, it totally disobay the laws of nature!"

But still, if something that creates energy out of nothing really *is* possible, even if it takes the energy from some place for free (like from the vacuum iteslf, or burning some heavy mysterious quark, or something) it would be wonderful!

I think the 'cold fusion' experiments back on the 90ies could fall into these kind of experiments. Futile attempts to go beyond the physical laws.

But among thousand cracknuts there might be one genius that actually has something in his mind that could work. How to find him? By study all of them.
If someone had thought Einstein was a cracknut, with his time dilation ideas, and energy equal mass, and such, then where would the relativity theory be now?