Perpetual Motion Discovered?

Looks to me as if the critisists have found the flaw already 🙂

Most PM are nothing more then a clever way to use energy sparingly.

Making a ball roll in circles for 10 years without any apparent suppy of energy doesn't prove it'll go on for ever.

The positive thing from al this is that they keep finding more efficient ways to use energy.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Probably out of steam, or financial support.

Whenever someone says "Look, I've Discovered Perpetual Motion!", we all says "No, it's not possible, it totally disobay the laws of nature!"

But still, if something that creates energy out of nothing really *is* possible, even if it takes the energy from some place for free (like from the vacuum iteslf, or burning some heavy mysterious quark, or something) it would be wonderful!

Probably ran out of swindles. If anyone ever invents a perpetual motion machine that works, he won't need support from "the establishment" - making free energy will in itself bring you a good deal of money. If push comes to shove, all you need to do is use your PM machine to run your electric car, and then invest the money you save on petrol in your PM machine factory.

Richard

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
Probably ran out of swindles. If anyone ever invents a perpetual motion machine that works, he won't need support from "the establishment" - making free energy will in itself bring you a good deal of money. If push comes to shove, all you need to do is use your PM machine to run your electric car, and then invest the money you save on petrol in your PM machine factory.

Richard

True, I would do so too. If possible.

But because of it's size, it's efficiency, or lack of some catalyst rare earth metal, or anything else that I caannot foresee, I might not be able to install it in my ar and save any money of reduced gas need.

Perhaps I would need some help to produce the first prototype - but noone will believe me (supposing that I'm right and not a cracknut) how would I proceed?

Einstein didn't build any machine to let out the energy from the atom, but he had the equations to show that it was possible, but not how (Elise Meitner did that). But on the other hand, he was accepted by the science community.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Probably out of steam, or financial support.

But still, if something that creates energy out of nothing really *is* possible, even if it takes the energy from some place for free (like from the vacuum iteslf, or burning some heavy mysterious quark, or something) it would be wonderful!

When I was in New Zealand recently I discovered that they use heat-pumps to heat their houses (fuel is very expensive). Heat pumps are such a neat idea; taking energy from outside for free and putting it into your own home.

The problem with them at the moment is their inefficiency (they need electricity) . I guess in the future heat-pumps will not even need any electricity for the pump ... just take the free energy to create electricity for that too.

Anyone know of any developments in this area?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
When I was in New Zealand recently I discovered that they use heat-pumps to heat their houses (fuel is very expensive). Heat pumps are such a neat idea; taking energy from outside for free and putting it into your own home.

The problem with them at the moment is their inefficiency (they need electricity) . I guess in the future heat-pumps will not even ...[text shortened]... free energy to create electricity for that too.

Anyone know of any developments in this area?

We use these heat-pumps quite much in Sweden too. They demand energy put into the system but gives twice or thrice as much back. So your heating cost will be quite low compared with if you heat your house with electricity alone.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
When I was in New Zealand recently I discovered that they use heat-pumps to heat their houses (fuel is very expensive). Heat pumps are such a neat idea; taking energy from outside for free and putting it into your own home.

The problem with them at the moment is their inefficiency (they need electricity) . I guess in the future heat-pumps will not even ...[text shortened]... free energy to create electricity for that too.

Anyone know of any developments in this area?

Heat pumps are not exactly a strange new idea...air conditioners often have a heater setting don't they?

Originally posted by jimslyp69
If this is so, where did all the energy in the universe initially come from? It must have been created somehow?

Or maybe it was always there.

Originally posted by crazyblue
Just another weird thought: We (humans) give heat to our environment all the time (at least when its not super hot outside or so). cant that heat be used/absorbed by a device/suit somehow and be transformed into engery that a cellphone or mp3-player or so can use to run or reload or so? has something like that been done already? i dont think i would be the first person to think of such a thing 😉

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8496

As far as I am aware of, heat energy takes the form via the insomuch-as-anyone-knows random motion at a molecular level. I have yet to hear of any sort of energy conversion where there was less net heat coming out of the reaction than was put into it.

Heat is, however, useful in its own manner, as anyone in the Northern states in winter will tell you. (And it may be I am wrong, but I suspect that it is a difficult task to convert heat into any other form of energy).

I suspect this and any other attempt to create perpetual motion will fall to the principle that with any process, net entropy will tend to increase.

At any rate, principles of entropy do present tremendous problems to science in general, particular when science attempts to explain absolute origins of many kinds. There are also other issues, such as how one "observes" or scientifically test hypotheses which relate to origins and to various other things which are difficult to impossible to observe directly.

I am personally thankful for the great many grand things science has allow mankind to discover and make use of. It really has been a great boon and development of mankind as a discipline. I do believe, however, that even science has its limitations, and I wonder if we aren't trying to make science do things it cannot do.

I am interested in seeing this device in action.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Take the religious discussion to the Spirituality Forum.
Let this Forum be a god less Forum please.

Totally agree - these nutters seem to have an antenae working
that pics up the 'G' word no matter where it is.
Having said that, should this thread not be on the Scientific Forum.

Anyway. Last year attended very interesting lecture in Edinburgh
by a scientist who stated that gravity was a free force.
If we could fool gravity into thinking it was upside down we would
have PM. It would pull down and then push up.
He gave some interesting ways, and their flaws, how this could be done.

You cannot scoff these ideas. If I came onto a forum 100 years
ago and said by 1970 we would be crossing the Atlantic at the
speed of a bullet and have men on the moon, you would have
directed me to the Lunatic Asylum.

The big pity is, if this PM works, the first thing they will do with it,
like all great inventions, is to find out how to turn it into a weapon.
(the first invention of mankind was probably a club - it's in our genes).

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Having said that, should this thread not be on the Scientific Forum.

This thread was started at 04 Jul '07, in those days there was no Scientific Forum. Puzzles and Posers was the place to discuss scientific issues back then. Spirituality was actually used for spiritualilty matters, not as it is now where the Spiritualists are infecting the Science Forum.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
This thread was started at 04 Jul '07, in those days there was no Scientific Forum. Puzzles and Posers was the place to discuss scientific issues back then. Spirituality was actually used for spiritualilty matters, not as it is now where the Spiritualists are infecting the Science Forum.

I see, so that's why it was started here instead of the Scientific Forum.

Sad to see and hear the fanatics have infested other forums.
AS long as they stay away from the Chess Forum. That's all that matters.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
I see, so that's why it was started here instead of the Scientific Forum.

Sad to see and hear the fanatics have infested other forums.
AS long as they stay away from the Chess Forum. That's all that matters.

Hehe,
23 ... Jesus e4xf2 check,
24 Abraham f1xg1
😀

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Heat pumps are not exactly a strange new idea...air conditioners often have a heater setting don't they?

I didnt think heat pumps either 'strange' or 'new'. We dont use them in UK so I was intrigued.

Regarding heat setting on Air Con I had assumed that this was an electrical heat process ... but I'm probably wrong. As you can imagine we dont have much need of Air Con in UK - a hand-held fan normally does the job! 😀

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I didnt think heat pumps either 'strange' or 'new'. We dont use them in UK so I was intrigued.

Regarding heat setting on Air Con I had assumed that this was an electrical heat process ... but I'm probably wrong. As you can imagine we dont have much need of Air Con in UK - a hand-held fan normally does the job! 😀

Air conditioners are heat pumps. One end is outside, the other inside. I imagine the heater setting is just a reversal of the AC function. Both are heat pumps.