19 Mar 07
Originally posted by mazziewagNo, that won't work. Black will simply release his position and win with the material advantage. There is no attack anymore for white.
1. Ne6 fxe6
2. Bxe6+ Kh8
might be onto something?
I think Bh6 may come into it to open the king up
I cant visualise too well so i cant come up with the next moves, will work on it.
Maybe you could let me know if im onto something mephisto or cludi?
19 Mar 07
Originally posted by mazziewagI thought it would be easy as well.
Thats why i was unsure, it seemed a little too obvious to not have been suggested already/dismissed.
It's obvious that the first move must be Bxf7+,
but sometimes it hard to find moves that are not
checks and not taking any opponent pieces.
Ne6! is a magnetic sac (at least that's the danish expression),
"pulling" out the black King of it's cave to be able to mate him
in a few moves or lose the Queen.
Who would believe that black was Dr. Tarrasch!!
White was Holzhausen and this game was played in Frankfurt 1912.
As Mephisto2 mentioned, excactly the same moves were probably(?) played a few years earlier with Dr. Tarrasch playing white !!!
19 Mar 07
1 edit
trying to get some a fork at f6 with the knight, and found that after
1. Nxe4 Bxb2
2. Bxb2 Qh6 (maybe not best black move? but if played...)
3. dxc6 Bxc6
3. Nf6+ Kf8
4. Bxc6
And material is pretty level. Ill look into 2... Kf8 instead but this line looks favourable for white with impending mate or decisive material gain?
Edit.
2...Kf8
3. Nf6 Qh6
4. dxc6 Bxh3
5. Rxd8 Rxd8
6. c7
Seems much better for white than black, and pretty much the same as the first line-impending mate or material gain i reckon.
20 Mar 07
Originally posted by ShinidokiI am not totally convinced yet that the queen sac leads to more than equal game.For instance (there must be other lines):
Nxe4 Bxb2 Bxb2 Kf8?? Nf6!? Qf5?? dxc6.
And if: Bxc6 Rxd1+ Rxd1 Bxc6
making that sequence even more powerful (assuming I found the best defences, which i doubt) is the possibilty of the imbetween move Nxh7+ ...(Kg8? Nf6+ Kf8...)
1.Ne4 Bxb2 (Ne5, declining the sac 2.g4 Qh4 3.Qb4 needs to be investigated too) 2.Bxb2 Kf8 3.Nf6 Qe2! 4.Nxh7+ Ke8 5.Nf6+ Kf8 6.dxc6 Bxc6 7.Rxd8+ Rxd8 8.Bxc6 Rd2! and then what winning combination does white have?
20 Mar 07
Originally posted by Mephisto2psh I don't know, I cant see that far into the future without an analysis board.
I am not totally convinced yet that the queen sac leads to more than equal game.For instance (there must be other lines):
1.Ne4 Bxb2 (Ne5, declining the sac 2.g4 Qh4 3.Qb4 needs to be investigated too) 2.Bxb2 Kf8 3.Nf6 Qe2! 4.Nxh7+ Ke8 5.Nf6+ Kf8 6.dxc6 Bxc6 7.Rxd8+ Rxd8 8.Bxc6 Rd2! and then what winning combination does white have?
decides, can't white effectively force perpetual with Nh7+ ???
20 Mar 07
1 edit
Originally posted by Mephisto2Yup, I knew it there was something wrong with it. 😛
1.exc3 Bxb2
2.Nxe4? then Bxc6! e.g. 3.Rxd8+ Rxd8 4.Bxb2 Rd1+ wins for black
After Bxc6, what about Rxd8+ Rxd8 g4 blocking the back row and making the queen move. Looks like white might have a couple moves after that?
Edit: Bleh...That doesn't work. Ah well, I'll try again some other time. 😞
22 Mar 07
Originally posted by cludiI apologize for bringing this excercise, which opbviously has no definite answer to it! I brought the example to show how tough decisions can be over the board where you have to make a decision in typically 1-20 minutes.
[fen]2rr2k1/p2b1pbp/1pn3p1/3P3q/4p3/B3P1PP/PQ1N1PB1/1R1R2K1 w - -[/fen]
White to move.
As all of you have suggested, it's tempting to sac the Queen with 1.Nxe4, but the problem is if there is enough compensation. There are no immediate winning lines at our disposal, so it takes some courage to play Nxe4.
Nonetheless, that was excactly the move played by GM Bent Larsen in the Biel Interzonal 1976!!
His opponent (Oscar Castro) couldn't believe his eyes; The leading player was sac'ing his Queen! That was quite a dilemma for black: Larsen was leading the tournament (and eventually won it!) and he was surely supposed to know what he was doing. On the other hand, Castro couldn't figure out how white was to get a decisive advantage from the sac.
After long consideration he decided NOT to take the Queen and played 1...Ne5 instead. Psychologically he was beaten already and on the board he lasted only 15 more moves before he was mated!