1. Account suspended
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    30 Jun '09 22:422 edits
    sorry i had to paste this, it brought me much gleeful joy and is dedicated to all you bad ol putty cats evolutionists out there,

    No single, essential difference separates human beings from other animals.' So began a feature article on evolution in TIME magazine ('How Man Began', March 14, 1994). The more I thought about this sweeping statement the more I began to warm to it.

    For example, like humans, apes have well formed rational faculties. Their ability to develop an argument, follow a line of logic, draw conclusions and frame hypotheses is quite remarkable.

    Also like humans, apes have a marked faculty for language. (This, of course, is intertwined with their powers of reason.) Their vocabulary is enormous, their grammar complex, and their conversations deep and meaningful.

    The apes' ability to codify language in writing is further proof of their close relationship to humans. In this respect, it was most gratifying to see the number of apes who wrote to TIME magazine in response to the article on 'How Man Began'. I was particularly interested to follow the line of reasoning of the orang-utan who argued that apes had evolved from humans, not vice versa.

    Like humans, apes also have a strong spirit of inquiry. Their research in the fields of astronomy, mathematics, medicine and physics is noteworthy.

    Apes also (again, like humans) yearn for meaning in life. This is why they devote so much of their time to philosophy, theology and ethics. The religious sentiments and practices of all apes can be traced back to their intense and endless quest for meaning.

    Apes are concerned about questions not only of origin but also of destiny. The best proof I can offer for this claim is the maxim by one famous ape philosopher who said, 'Whether my life leads ultimately to the dirt or to the Judgment, either way, I've got a problem.'

    Apes also have, like humans, a refined aesthetic sense. They admire beauty and long to surround themselves with it. When an ape cultivates a garden, puts flowers in a vase, or hangs up a painting, what is it doing if not expressing a love of beauty?

    Again like humans, apes have a strong creative impulse. This is seen in their poetry, painting, dance, drama and music. To a lesser extent their creativity is also evident in the way they gather in weekly craft groups to weave baskets, spin wool, knit shawls, and cover photo albums.

    The sense of humour shared by all apes is another proof of their close kinship to humans. Their delight in the ridiculous and their love of a good laugh is plain from the popular ape jokes they tell.

    Reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humour ... such intangible but fundamental qualities are by no means unique to humans, as I hope I have conclusively shown. Therefore, in the profound words of TIME magazine: 'No single, essential difference separates human beings from other animals'.

    This being the case, Christians are plainly wrong to insist that humans and animals are vastly different. And they are also obviously wrong to insist that this difference arises from the fact that God created us humans in His own likeness. And if they are wrong to insist that God made us in His own likeness, then they are wrong to insist that God has any claim on us.

    Furthermore, if God has no claim on us, then we are free — free to be animals like our evolutionary ancestors — free to be as low-down as snakes, and to make pigs of ourselves, and to act like donkeys.

    Did I say 'free'?

    Hiss! Oink! Hee-haw!
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    30 Jun '09 22:53
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    sorry i had to paste this, it brought me much gleeful joy and is dedicated to all you bad ol putty cats evolutionists out there,

    [b]No single, essential difference separates human beings from other animals.'
    So began a feature article on evolution in TIME magazine ('How Man Began', March 14, 1994). The more I thought about this sweeping statem ...[text shortened]... of ourselves, and to act like donkeys.

    Did I say 'free'?

    Hiss! Oink! Hee-haw![/b]
    Free to do so, but certainly not obliged.
  3. Joined
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    01 Jul '09 03:57
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Furthermore, if God has no claim on us, then we are free — free to be animals like our evolutionary ancestors — free to be as low-down as snakes, and to make pigs of ourselves, and to act like donkeys.
    You're the one bringing in religion into Science.Why do you do that? Because you believe that god *is* science? Then I have some information to you: It's not.

    Religion and Science cannot mix.
  4. Joined
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    01 Jul '09 10:221 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    sorry i had to paste this, it brought me much gleeful joy and is dedicated to all you bad ol putty cats evolutionists out there,

    [b]No single, essential difference separates human beings from other animals.'
    So began a feature article on evolution in TIME magazine ('How Man Began', March 14, 1994). The more I thought about this sweeping statem of ourselves, and to act like donkeys.

    Did I say 'free'?

    Hiss! Oink! Hee-haw![/b]
    Why did you put this thread in the science forum? -like the ‘A quickie for the creationists’ thread, it clearly doesn’t belong here.

    If you are not making a scientific enquiry nor pointing out a new scientific development then the thread shouldn’t be started in this science forum and should be started in one of the other forums (the spirituality forum in this case).
  5. Account suspended
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    01 Jul '09 13:50
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    Why did you put this thread in the science forum? -like the ‘A quickie for the creationists’ thread, it clearly doesn’t belong here.

    If you are not making a scientific enquiry nor pointing out a new scientific development then the thread shouldn’t be started in this science forum and should be started in one of the other forums (the spirituality forum in this case).
    why not, i thought that you and Fabloid and Noobster would appreciate its significance!
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    01 Jul '09 16:35
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    sorry i had to paste this, it brought me much gleeful joy and is dedicated to all you bad ol putty cats evolutionists out there,

    [b]No single, essential difference separates human beings from other animals.'
    So began a feature article on evolution in TIME magazine ('How Man Began', March 14, 1994). The more I thought about this sweeping statem ...[text shortened]... of ourselves, and to act like donkeys.

    Did I say 'free'?

    Hiss! Oink! Hee-haw![/b]
    so are you suggesting that people who do not engage in every single one of those activities mentioned are not really human? or that no other creature can or has done?

    i find it hard to believe that someone could genuinely think we're not animals
  7. Account suspended
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    01 Jul '09 17:12
    Originally posted by london nick
    so are you suggesting that people who do not engage in every single one of those activities mentioned are not really human? or that no other creature can or has done?

    i find it hard to believe that someone could genuinely think we're not animals
    i did not author the above, i merely copied and pasted it, to show a number of things, namely the type of dogmatic and unsubstantiated assertions that are associated with the evolutionary hypothesis, and secondly that humans are unique, you can take from that what you want.
  8. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
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    01 Jul '09 17:36
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    i did not author the above, i merely copied and pasted it, to show a number of things, namely the type of dogmatic and unsubstantiated assertions that are associated with the evolutionary hypothesis, and secondly that humans are unique, you can take from that what you want.
    Well maybe so, but donkeys are unique. Really I don´t see your point, you shouldn´t confuse journalism with science. Most of the assertions about evolution have a significant evidence base, creationist ideas have no evidence base other than the creation myths of the religions they´re based on.
  9. Account suspended
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    01 Jul '09 17:45
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Well maybe so, but donkeys are unique. Really I don´t see your point, you shouldn´t confuse journalism with science. Most of the assertions about evolution have a significant evidence base, creationist ideas have no evidence base other than the creation myths of the religions they´re based on.
    sigh, where have i heard that before, mmmmm, are you Fabians sock puppet? look at the first line of the statement as reported by time magazine, if that does not constitute sensationalistic journalism then i don't know what does!
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    01 Jul '09 17:59
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    why not, i thought that you and Fabloid and Noobster would appreciate its significance!
    what significance?
  11. Cape Town
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    04 Jul '09 07:38
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    look at the first line of the statement as reported by time magazine, if that does not constitute sensationalistic journalism then i don't know what does!
    It does constitute sensationalist journalism, thats why it is in Time. But whats your point?

    But lets look at the statement more carefully.
    All animals are unique. Every individual is unique. So what does the writer mean by 'essential difference'?
    What characteristics of humans can we pick out that we can truly say are special enough that we can but them in a different category from all other characteristics that animals have? I don't think any of the points you mention in your cut and past are that special. Do you? If so, why? Remember we are talking about something more significant than other abilities that we do not have like the ability to breath water, or the ability to fly etc.
  12. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    05 Jul '09 01:17
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    sorry i had to paste this, it brought me much gleeful joy and is dedicated to all you bad ol putty cats evolutionists out there,

    [b]No single, essential difference separates human beings from other animals.'
    So began a feature article on evolution in TIME magazine ('How Man Began', March 14, 1994). The more I thought about this sweeping statem ...[text shortened]... of ourselves, and to act like donkeys.

    Did I say 'free'?

    Hiss! Oink! Hee-haw![/b]
    Sarcasm does not suit you. That is just one step away from Ad hominem
    attacks. BTW, on non-verbal IQ tests, apes have achieved a score of human IQ equivalent of 80. Not bad for a dude with one third the brain mass of humans.
  13. Joined
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    13 Jul '09 17:032 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Sarcasm does not suit you. That is just one step away from Ad hominem
    attacks. BTW, on non-verbal IQ tests, apes have achieved a score of human IQ equivalent of 80. Not bad for a dude with one third the brain mass of humans.
    I remember reading about some middle aged woman who went to see a doctor as she was feeling a
    wee bit weak. Other than that, she'd led a normal life without any significant mental or physical
    problems. An MRI-scan revealed that the entire left part of her brain was missing completely.

    Obviously, we have way more brain matter than needed for everyday human activities. I wouldn't be
    surprised if one day it's proven that any cow has the intellectual capacity of the average human.

    (Not cow as in big woman, but really... cow - a cow brain is about the size of a fist.)
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    14 Jul '09 03:51
    Originally posted by Jigtie
    I remember reading about some middle aged woman who went to see a doctor as she was feeling a
    wee bit weak. Other than that, she'd led a normal life without any significant mental or physical
    problems. An MRI-scan revealed that the entire left part of her brain was missing completely.

    Obviously, we have way more brain matter than needed for everyday hu ...[text shortened]... n.

    (Not cow as in big woman, but really... cow - a cow brain is about the size of a fist.)
    I wouldn't be a bit circumsized that we could do on the brainsize of a sow.
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    14 Jul '09 04:13
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    I wouldn't be a bit circumsized that we could do on the brainsize of a sow.
    You wouldn't be a bit have your foreskin removed that we could do on the brain size of a female hog?

    ?
    😕~
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