20 Dec '12 14:44>
Originally posted by Thequ1ckThat's nonsense.
I would say that a closed loop simulation is the most feasible explanation of existence.
A simulation that eventually engineers itself.
Originally posted by googlefudgeI am afraid that is just a tautological truth because for something to 'exist' it must either consist of something or at least have a definable space-time location or area of existence or have some other definable physical properties else it doesn't exist by the meaning of 'exist'.
How do you know that there is no such thing as nothing?
Originally posted by humySo its impossible to perceive "nothing", but "nothing" certainly "exists" in the absence of perception.
I am afraid that is just a tautological truth because for something to 'exist' it must either consist of something or at least have a definable space-time location or area of existence or have some other definable physical properties else it doesn't exist by the meaning of 'exist'.
So 'nothing' or true 'nothingness' doesn’t exist by definition.
If somethin ...[text shortened]... or vacuum of space is not nothing! empty space exists therefore it is not nothing! )
Originally posted by joe shmoNot sure what you mean -I wouldn't say or think perception has something to do with it.
So its impossible to perceive "nothing", but "nothing" certainly "exists" in the absence of perception.
Originally posted by humyYeah, that's pretty much what I meant.
Not sure what you mean -I wouldn't say or think perception has something to do with it.
When I talk about something "existing", unless I am talking about something mental ( such as perception or feeling or thought etc ) , I would say whether somebody perceives it is irrelevant because it can "exist" whether you look at it or not ( I do not accept the all-to-c ...[text shortened]... st in the presence of perception? If so, then how would perception be relevant?
Originally posted by joe shmoThis is not the Void but confusion.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant.
As I sit here and ponder, it is quickly becoming apparent to me that I cannot perceive 'nothing' in the physical sense. That is to say; if I were to believe this universe exists, and I try to get beyond it, to what it may exist in, I can't find 'nothing'. What I continually find in my thoughts are different levels ...[text shortened]... e...one perspective says "something" and the other says "nothing". on or off, 1 or 0?
Originally posted by black beetleAre you saying I'm confused, on the right track, or something else entirely?
This is not the Void but confusion.
Thus I have heard: by knowing the things that exist, you can know the things that do not exist. This is the Void.*
*Go Rin No Sho/ The Book of the Void, Shinmen Musashi no Kami Fujiwara no Genshin
😵
Originally posted by joe shmoI am saying that the way to perceive "nothing" is not to to die, which is furthermore understood by you as equal to "essentially removing the program, or our perception". This is confusion.
Are you saying I'm confused, on the right track, or something else entirely?
Originally posted by black beetleWhen you say "This is confusion", what do you mean? What am I confusing?
I am saying that the way to perceive "nothing" is not to to die, which is furthermore understood by you as equal to "essentially removing the program, or our perception". This is confusion.
I am saying that the void can be perceived when one does not attribute anymore inherent existence to something that lacks of inherent existence😵
Originally posted by joe shmoI will sort it out:
When you say "This is confusion", what do you mean? What am I confusing?
Know that I understand now that you disagree with me, or my perception. However, I am having trouble understanding your perception, and therefore cannot formulate an opinion to its validity in the context of the argument.
Specifically, that last sentence is somewhat cryptic and fuzzy to me.