Can creationists make good scientists?

Originally posted by Kepler
I don't think you can blame chemistry for the failure of UK regulatory bodies to ban over the counter sales of chloroform in cough syrup. Maybe you should write to your MP? Or the Health Secretary?

Maybe thats true . but who made the cough medicine, who wrote the formula?

whilst I'm on that subject you also sometimes get methyl paaraben in cough medicine here which was taken out of some cosmetics for being carciogenic (allegedly) - they give it another name but i looked it up and its paraben - both chemicals are very very cheap - i did my homework and manure is more expensive by the ton then chloroform! There are better chemicals - Guaifenesin - but they're more expensive - we really are being sold rubbish sometimes.

Originally posted by e4chris
How is it a creationist case? I go back to the muslim view - God made everything! Including your telescope!

So God made the Dodo? Why? What was he thinking?

please enlighten me how survival of fittest made the dodo 🙂 ?
To understand it in full, you would do well to read some books on evolution, but let me have a go.
I presume you think the dodo could not have evolved because it was not fit. But what you probably don't know, is that the Dodo lived on the Island of Mauritius. It evolved there and was actually quite successful. It went extinct, due to the arrival of man. Man changed the environment, and the dodo was no longer suited to the environment and went extinct. As a result, some 'fitter' species now occupies its niche in the environment of Mauritius.
Do you understand, or do you have more questions?

Originally posted by twhitehead
So God made the Dodo? Why? What was he thinking?

[b]please enlighten me how survival of fittest made the dodo 🙂 ?
To understand it in full, you would do well to read some books on evolution, but let me have a go.
I presume you think the dodo could not have evolved because it was not fit. But what you probably don't know, is that the Dodo lived o its niche in the environment of Mauritius.
Do you understand, or do you have more questions?[/b]

There's a passage in the bible that says someting like , when the birds fly out in the morning, do they return to there nests hungry? I think that idea is quite imprtant in evolution - plenty - but the way some people describe it, the world would have nothing but crocodiles

Originally posted by e4chris
There's a passage in the bible that says someting like , when the birds fly out in the morning, do they return to there nests hungry? I think that idea is quite imprtant in evolution - plenty - but the way some people describe it, the world would have nothing but crocodiles

Well those 'some people' are probably the creationists that you think would make good scientists. No actual biologist would tell you such a thing.

And I guess God forgot to feed the dodos or something?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Well those 'some people' are probably the creationists that you think would make good scientists. No actual biologist would tell you such a thing.

And I guess God forgot to feed the dodos or something?

Its a crude argument, but people who like eugenics are just like crocodiles - they are about as much use to you as a crocodile, If the nazi won that would be a world of them . and academia ... its a bit like that sometimes ...

re creationism I think there are 2 strands - the weak - young earth types who are basically telling a story. But also the irrefutable - Muslims, maybe even scientologists , you might well say Ron Hubbard was making things up but try proving aliens don't exist. (its still such a cult tho!)

Originally posted by e4chris
Its a crude argument, but people who like eugenics are just like crocodiles - they are about as much use to you as a crocodile,

Crocodiles are very useful. Not only in nature, but they are even farmed.

As for eugenics, I am actually not totally opposed to it, I just have reservations as to how it is carried out. What are your objections to eugenics?

But also the irrefutable - Muslims, maybe even scientologists , you might well say Ron Hubbard was making things up but try proving aliens don't exist. (its still such a cult tho!)
There are actually very few claims that theists make that are irrefutable. Much of what they say is refutable as happens all the time over in the spirituality forum.
In fact, I would say that every supernatural claim is either a claim that it might be the case, or is refutable in other words, if a theist says he can prove something supernatural is the case, then I will refute it.

Originally posted by e4chris
Maybe thats true . but who made the cough medicine, who wrote the formula?

whilst I'm on that subject you also sometimes get methyl paaraben in cough medicine here which was taken out of some cosmetics for being carciogenic (allegedly) - they give it another name but i looked it up and its paraben - both chemicals are very very cheap - i did my homework a ...[text shortened]... cals - Guaifenesin - but they're more expensive - we really are being sold rubbish sometimes.

Again, you can't blame science for what businesses sell. Science is not responsible for all the ills of this world.

As for eugenics, I am actually not totally opposed to it, I just have reservations as to how it is carried out. What are your objections to eugenics? .


The fact that some people still believe in Eugenics is why, having considered it quite a bit, I support nuclear weapons for the US, EU and Russia, China if they wanted them. The consequences of Eugenics are so dire that a nuclear attack on such a country - if it starts massacaring its neighbours is proportionate and quite possibly the least cruel option. If you like Eugenics .. i might have to like KFC. I have to point out there have been some very ugly racist attacks against immigrants in south africa that make it into the UK news. Is that how you apply it?

When the UK was up against Eugenics, its not pc to say and it was not our initial plan, we burnt the germans alive- Thats why bomber command have only just got a campaign medal, 60 years late, they could not hit much so we... its not a nice picture, but what they did was so much worse.

It looks like you can't actually articulate what your objections to eugenics are, and as always, you don't even know what eugenics is and are trying to tie it in with anything else bad that you can think of.
How about you try to give a definition of eugenics before we proceed?

Originally posted by twhitehead
It looks like you can't actually articulate what your objections to eugenics are, and as always, you don't even know what eugenics is and are trying to tie it in with anything else bad that you can think of.
How about you try to give a definition of eugenics before we proceed?

Now I don't study it as a subject, but being British, the tales of my elderly relatives, The way we are all taught in school how evil the nazis were. Thats what forms my opinion - also the film 'Come And See', sort of crystalises it - that film made me support nuclear weapons, as an absolute last resort

If you think Eugenics is good watch that! Its diabolical - by virtue of being an accurate portrayal of what happened to the russians at the hands of the nazis.

Thats how i see it - i do not need a book to tell me its wrong. How do you see it??

Originally posted by e4chris
Now I don't study it as a subject, but being British, the tales of my elderly relatives, The way we are all taught in school how evil the nazis were.

OK, so your a victim of propaganda. If you lived in the US, you would be terrified of the communists and think that every Japanese person was the devil.

Thats how i see it - i do not need a book to tell me its wrong. How do you see it??
But maybe a book would tell you what it is. Luckily, these days, the greatest book on earth, is not on earth, but online! Wikipedia to the rescue!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
If you manage to read all that (I got bored quite quickly 🙂 ) then we can discuss whether eugenics is really what you hate, or whether it is the Nazis.

Originally posted by twhitehead
OK, so your a victim of propaganda. If you lived in the US, you would be terrified of the communists and think that every Japanese person was the devil.

[b]Thats how i see it - i do not need a book to tell me its wrong. How do you see it??
But maybe a book would tell you what it is. Luckily, these days, the greatest book on earth, is not on earth ...[text shortened]... y 🙂 ) then we can discuss whether eugenics is really what you hate, or whether it is the Nazis.[/b]

Yes wikipedia to the rescue!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_and_See

"And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

that is my understanding of it...

Originally posted by e4chris
Yes wikipedia to the rescue!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_and_See

"And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with ...[text shortened]... unger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

that is my understanding of it...

OK. I am starting to see what you have against those substandard cannabis alternatives and the chemists that made them. You haven't been mixing your own brews by any chance?

Originally posted by twhitehead
OK. I am starting to see what you have against those substandard cannabis alternatives and the chemists that made them. You haven't been mixing your own brews by any chance?

Nope 🙂 I used to take this chinese tea for a while. They do bug me, its a very useful subject but the only good i can see is plastic, and to be fair some good drugs, and a ton of patented bad ones.

I was thinking about Eugenics, and it is such a slippery slope, As your article points out - the picture , it was popular especially with academics... until ww2.

But i think there is a modern form of eugenics going on and in a good way. When you have big mobile populations - eg London you can meet your ideal match much more easily. Internet dating is a harmless type of Eugenics as its matching well suited people up. To be a bit un pc there are certain ethnic groups I don't fancy, I'm white, I don't find some other nationalities attractive. I have friends that do. A 'good match' could be genetic or not, but if you want a genetic one you can find it. Whats dangerous is the slip into perceiving a superiority because of it. People into Eugenics almost always put them selves at the top. The germans were no master race. Maybe its a bit like communism and supermarkets - I think thats what they wanted - supermarkets with nice cheap food - but they couldn't make them because they regulated everything! With Eugenics its much worse - you want your personal master race but because it causes war quickly, historicaly they tend to get wiped out or burn out.. And even if they suceeded they end up inbred, geneticaly 'inferior' to what we have now.

Originally posted by e4chris
Nope 🙂 I used to take this chinese tea for a while. They do bug me, its a very useful subject but the only good i can see is plastic, and to be fair some good drugs, and a ton of patented bad ones.

I was thinking about Eugenics, and it is such a slippery slope, As your article points out - the picture , it was popular especially with academics... until w ...[text shortened]... And even if they suceeded they end up inbred, geneticaly 'inferior' to what we have now.

Plastic is good? Have a look at what washes up on beaches these days. Might change your mind. Then again, as with most things, it's not actually black and white.