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Originally posted by e4chris
now you are being obstinate, I have given you your Hindu link to look up, you have a really , really warped and wrong view of christianity if you link it to the nazis. You are confusing the fact that germany was a christian country, like the whole of Europe, so all nazis come from a christian background, how in hell was invading poland christian, please expl o demonise science, not at all, but when you mix it with fascism as the nazis did its terrible.
now you are being obstinate, I have given you your Hindu link to look up,
Yes, and I have basically told you its irrelevant since that doesn't change the fact that most Nazis, including Hitler, was Christian. I never claimed that ALL Nazis were Christian -MOST were Christian. 'most' does not equal 'all' -get it now? Some being Hindu would not in anyway logically contradict MOST of them being Christian thus some being Hindu is irrelevant.
you have a really , really warped and wrong view of christianity if you link it to the nazis.
I do not so much 'link' Christianity to the Nazis but the Nazis to Christianity because most of them had a Nazi-friendly version of Christianity and, while most Christians are not Nazis, most Nazis were Christian.
I would not think that Christianity naturally leads to Nazism in particular because, in most cases, one clearly does not result in the other although I have to point out that one absurd belief does make it easier to be convinced of other absurd beliefs thus if you have a religion (whether Christian or not) rather than having no religion then that would make it more credible you could be convinced by the absurdities of the Nazi philosophy and history does indeed appear to confirm this because virtually all Nazis had a religion (whether Christian or not although most were Christian) and without a single noteworthy exception.
You are confusing the fact that germany was a christian country, like the whole of Europe, so all nazis come from a christian background,
No.
With all else being equal, a person having a Christian background makes him more likely to be Christian -do you deny this?
how in hell was invading Poland Christian, please explain?
Why would Poland being Christian stop some bad Christians invading it? I assume that, most poles, whether they were Christian or not, were not Nazi so the mere fact that many poles were Christian would have done very little to demotivate the Nazis from invading Poland. Even if all the poles were Christian without exception, that still wouldn't have stopped the invasion!
I'm not trying to demonise science, not at all, but when you mix it with fascism as the nazis did its terrible.
-and the same goes with “when you mix it with” Christianity -fascism is terrible regardless of what you “mix it with” 😛 -fascism is terrible even if you mix it with either nothing or merely NO science.
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Well that is definitive i give you that. But what your argument seems to imply? is that if a dictatorship takes over a christian country, that dictatorship is thus christian. I just don't think thats true and history bears that out. Yes the Catholics church have propped up dictatorships, what were they going to do, close? but they have also been on the receiving end. Also I didn't want to imply anything bad about hindus at all. Its just some, some nazis took an interest, and it kinda got onto there flag. but that has nothing to do with hinduism either.
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Originally posted by e4chris
Well that is definitive i give you that. But what your argument seems to imply? is that if a dictatorship takes over a christian country, that dictatorship is thus christian. I just don't think thats true and history bears that out. Yes the Catholics church have propped up dictatorships, what were they going to do, close? but they have also been on the recei n interest, and it kinda got onto there flag. but that has nothing to do with hinduism either.
But what your argument seems to imply? is that if a dictatorship takes over a christian country, that dictatorship is thus christian.
No. And none of my claims are dependent on that being so.
I have already given you the proof of the historical records clearly showing that most Nazis were Christian. ALL the Nazi leaders in WW2 were Christian (and most but not all of the rest of the Nazis) -can you show ANY historical record that show at least one of the Nazi leaders wasn't? If not, what is the rational premise of your assertion that the Nazis were not, in the main, Christian?
Yes the Catholics church have propped up dictatorships, what were they going to do, close? but they have also been on the receiving end.
If it is true that the Catholics church was forced to capitulate with the Nazis, that would not contradict the fact that the Nazis were mostly Christian themselves.
Originally posted by humyWhy do they have a hindu symbol on there flag then? if its so christianBut what your argument seems to imply? is that if a dictatorship takes over a christian country, that dictatorship is thus christian.
No. And none of my claims are dependent on that being so.
I have already given you the proof of the historical records clearly showing that most Nazis were Christian. ALL the Nazi leaders in WW2 were Chri ...[text shortened]... the Nazis, that would not contradict the fact that the Nazis were mostly Christian themselves.
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Originally posted by humybecause it isn't. this my argument about 'creationists' i would rather put up with one of them as a scientist then a fascist any day of the week, and i think dawkins n co have a dangerous argument.
I was not talking about the flag being Christian.
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Originally posted by e4chrisa flag symbol not being Christian would not stop a Christian waving it. The Nazis are proof of that if you need such proof.
because it isn't. this my argument about 'creationists' i would rather put up with one of them as a scientist then a fascist any day of the week, and i think dawkins n co have a dangerous argument.
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Originally posted by humyI am not going to try to conivince you any more 🙂 but to me nazis were christian as every country in Europe was ... that does not make fascist politics christian at all (I have met a few chritians i would call fascists but very few, quite the minority)
a flag symbol not being Christian would not stop a Christian waving it. The Nazis are proof of that if you need such proof.
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Originally posted by e4chris
I am not going to try to conivince you any more 🙂 but to me nazis were christian as every country in Europe was ... that does not make fascist politics christian at all (I have met a few chritians i would call fascists but very few, quite the minority)
that does not make fascist politics christian at all
I didn't say that 'fascist politics' is Christian. I said that most Nazis were Christian -which they were and I have repeatedly shown you proof of that.
Most Christians are not Nazi but most Nazis were Christian -this is merely stating the known statistical facts.
Originally posted by humyThats like saying Saddam was a muslim, but he wasn't a very good muslim, he was much more of a military man, I don't think being a muslim informed his actions that much.that does not make fascist politics christian at all
I didn't say that 'fascist politics' is Christian. I said that most Nazis were Christian -which they were and I have repeatedly shown you proof of that.
Most Christians are not Nazi but most Nazis were Christian -this is merely stating the known statistical facts.
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Originally posted by e4chrisI am not saying that Christianity informed the Nazis how to behave -I have said before and I have just said again "Most Christians are not Nazi".
Thats like saying Saddam was a muslim, but he wasn't a very good muslim, he was much more of a military man, I don't think being a muslim informed his actions that much.
I am only merely saying that most Nazis were Christian because you deny this fact.
Evil does not come from belief or disbelief in Christian or theism but rather from lack of compassion. Being Christian does not mean you are compassionate (the Nazis are proof of that) and not being Christian does not mean you lack compassion.
Originally posted by e4chrishe is responding, like i did, to your post about "science" needing religion. and even though you corrected later, the fact remains, that is what is the message of the first post: that you believe morality equals religion and atheist scientists could use more of that morality because they are unable to get some themselves.
now you are being obstinate, I have given you your Hindu link to look up, you have a really , really warped and wrong view of christianity if you link it to the nazis. You are confusing the fact that germany was a christian country, like the whole of Europe, so all nazis come from a christian background, how in hell was invading poland christian, please expl ...[text shortened]... o demonise science, not at all, but when you mix it with fascism as the nazis did its terrible.
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Originally posted by ZahlanziNo not quite that, I'm not saying Scientist need religion to make good judgement . But religions are a very good source of moral guidance.. An understanding of what they stand for can be good for Scientists. But instead you almost have a scientific hatred of religion spouted by Dawkins types and by people in these forums. I have listed quite a few scientific mess ups , including the lifes work of fritz haber , where a bit more morals would have been useful, not saying they have to come from religion. Just if you look at the subject of morality, its hard to discuss without a mention of it.
he is responding, like i did, to your post about "science" needing religion. and even though you corrected later, the fact remains, that is what is the message of the first post: that you believe morality equals religion and atheist scientists could use more of that morality because they are unable to get some themselves.
When I was studying chemistry I would of loved a short course on ethics / morality. Infact I felt it was a really big omission from my course.
Originally posted by e4chrisAnd you are yet to justify such a claim. I say the opposite, religions are a very bad source of moral guidance.
But religions are a very good source of moral guidance.
An understanding of what they stand for can be good for Scientists.
Religions don't 'stand for' anything. Religions are delusional beliefs, not political/moral causes.
But instead you almost have a scientific hatred of religion spouted by Dawkins types and by people in these forums.
And yet the people spouting this apparent hatred seem to be, on average, more morally upstanding than the theists on these forums.
Name one religious leader that shows better morality than Dawkins.
When I was studying chemistry I would of loved a short course on ethics / morality. Infact I felt it was a really big omission from my course.
And as I said, this really has nothing whatsoever to do with science. Why did you not miss ethics when you studied maths? Why do you not think those studying business management or accounts do not need ethics courses? You have given no real justification for picking on science in particular.