Can evolved dolphins master fire or technology?

Originally posted by PBE6
ATY, stop smoking the chronic before watching re-runs of Battlefield: Earth.

Battlefield Earth? Among the worse movies ever made, but what has that to do with dolphins, advanced or present day? BTW, do you know why BE became a best seller?
Answer: (hope you are not a scientologist) the leaders, of course under L Ron, bought up all the copies, or most of them anyway, to force BE to the top seller list. Nice, eh. Real writing.

Does dolphins need fire for their survival? No.
Did humans need fire for our survival once? Yes.

When we think of intelligence, specifically human intelligence in relation to other species, then we tend to think about technological intelligence. "What do you mean?" "Well, no dolphin hasn't ever constructed a computer/travelled to the moon/made an H-bomb, right?" ( "Have you yourself done that? Do you therefore yourself considered being intelligent? Or not?" )

So let's start from the beginning: What is intelligence?

Question (1) Who is most intelligent? You or that rock over there?
Question (2) Can you prove it?

So unless we don't define intelligence properly we cannot ever answer the question above.

One definition many people lean upon is "Inteligence is waht we have, not the others." 'Others' meaning animals, computers, sometimes even women (uttered by a male).

So how do we really know if dolphins are more or less intelligent than humans? By asking them? And even if we get a response, do we understand the answer? Perhaps they are far more advanced than us in the matter of philosophy? How would we ever know?

Another question: How much communication is necessary for technological breakthroughs? I was wondering, do dolphins need to be able to communicate abstract thought first? Or can one brilliant dolphin get the ball rolling, with other dolphins joining the party as their language evolves to keep up with the technological advances?

edit: These are additional thoughts I'm having and conversation pieces, not slams at your thesis, which I find intriguing.

Originally posted by pawnhandler
Another question: How much communication is necessary for technological breakthroughs? I was wondering, do dolphins need to be able to communicate abstract thought first? Or can one brilliant dolphin get the ball rolling, with other dolphins joining the party as their language evolves to keep up with the technological advances?

edit: These are add ...[text shortened]... thoughts I'm having and conversation pieces, not slams at your thesis, which I find intriguing.

I would think the ideas would lead to the advances in language. If you can't communicate some idea, you give it a name.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Until they crawl out of the sea and start climbing trees their tool making ability is limited and what kind of technology could get off the ground under water.

Their only chance is to turn into squeaky-voiced imitations of us.??

Obviously any technology created under water would never get "off the ground" because it would never be "on the ground" in the first place. Hehe


Anyway...

I don't think Dolphins could invent anything. First they'd need to come up with some way of manipulating their environments... like fingers or something...

I'd suggest that it would be more productive to keep on the lookout for highly evolved squids.

EDIT:

Actually on second thought, they might have one unique way of manipulating their environments. Check out this video: "Dolphins Blow Bubble Rings" on "Youtube" YouTube
Maybe they could develop this ability to be able to hold tools with bubbles? That'd be neat. 😛

Originally posted by pawnhandler
Another question: How much communication is necessary for technological breakthroughs? I was wondering, do dolphins need to be able to communicate abstract thought first? Or can one brilliant dolphin get the ball rolling, with other dolphins joining the party as their language evolves to keep up with the technological advances?

edit: These are add ...[text shortened]... thoughts I'm having and conversation pieces, not slams at your thesis, which I find intriguing.

Do we know how sophisticated the language of dolphins is? Are *we* able to know it? Do we know what they're are talking about among themselves?

Perhaps we're the ones backwards?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Does dolphins need fire for their survival? No.
Did humans need fire for our survival once? Yes.

When we think of intelligence, specifically human intelligence in relation to other species, then we tend to think about technological intelligence. "What do you mean?" "Well, no dolphin hasn't ever constructed a computer/travelled to the moon/made an H-b ...[text shortened]... are far more advanced than us in the matter of philosophy? How would we ever know?

"intelligence" is the ability to solve problems without having to rely on a script (whether it's something you read or a set of instincts embedded in your brain by your genes).

to test "intelligence" you have figure out what types of "problems" dolphins would be interested in solving. Then set up experiments involving ever more challenging problems and see how long it takes for dolphins to solve them. Compare the dolphin's performance with average human performance for a similar problem.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
"intelligence" is the ability to solve problems without having to rely on a script (whether it's something you read or a set of instincts embedded in your brain by your genes).

to test "intelligence" you have figure out what types of "problems" dolphins would be interested in solving. Then set up experiments involving ever more challenging problems and ...[text shortened]... Compare the dolphin's performance with average human performance for a similar problem.

If the dolphins doesn't like to solve problems, this method would fail.

I once saw a program from BBC about the intelligence of chimpansees. They had a photographic memory way more superiour than humans. Humans looked childish in comparison. What does this say about their intelligence in comparison?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
If the dolphins doesn't like to solve problems, this method would fail.

I once saw a program from BBC about the intelligence of chimpansees. They had a photographic memory way more superiour than humans. Humans looked childish in comparison. What does this say about their intelligence in comparison?

Problems that every species generally "likes to solve" involves the procurement of food and finding a suitable mate. Species that don't like solving these problems soon become extinct species.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
Problems that every species generally "likes to solve" involves the procurement of food and finding a suitable mate. Species that don't like solving these problems soon become extinct species.

Shelter from the elements, healing of wounds, defence against predators, suppressing rivals etc. Lacking hands is limiting but without competition they'd figure it out.

Originally posted by Melanerpes
Problems that every species generally "likes to solve" involves the procurement of food and finding a suitable mate. Species that don't like solving these problems soon become extinct species.

If we define "likes to solve" very broadly, I might agree.

I sometimes am posed to problems I don't like to solve, yet I'm not anywhere near to be extinct.

If dolphins don't like to solve certain problems, or cannot, we have no method of knowing.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
If we define "likes to solve" very broadly, I might agree.

I sometimes am posed to problems I don't like to solve, yet I'm not anywhere near to be extinct.

If dolphins don't like to solve certain problems, or cannot, we have no method of knowing.

Yet.