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  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    05 Nov '13 15:51
    http://phys.org/news/2013-11-workers-forbidden-city-stones-roads.html

    They knew more about friction than western countries at that time. 15th century.
  2. 05 Nov '13 17:20
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://phys.org/news/2013-11-workers-forbidden-city-stones-roads.html

    They knew more about friction than western countries at that time. 15th century.
    Although it is impressive, what makes you think they knew more about friction than western countries? Isaac Newton was a mere 100 years later, Christopher Columbus had crossed the Atlantic. I am pretty sure that Westerners knew that ice was slippery.
  3. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    05 Nov '13 17:32
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Although it is impressive, what makes you think they knew more about friction than western countries? Isaac Newton was a mere 100 years later, Christopher Columbus had crossed the Atlantic. I am pretty sure that Westerners knew that ice was slippery.
    I never heard of any western country using that technique though. I never heard of anyone using that technique period Maybe the game of curling. That's about it for me and they probably didn't have that game 400 years ago anywhere on the planet.
  4. 05 Nov '13 18:13
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I never heard of any western country using that technique though. I never heard of anyone using that technique period
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Horseman#Thunder_Stone
    [quote]Carburis directed workmen to wait for winter, when the ground was frozen, and then had them drag the large stone over the frozen ground to the sea for shipment and transport to the city.[quote]
    That was in 1768 and may be the largest stone ever moved by man.
    They also used ball bearings, so maybe he only wanted the ground frozen so that it wouldn't sink into the ground.
    However, I don't think you not hearing about a technique is good enough reason to declare that the whole of Europe was ignorant of it.
  5. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    06 Nov '13 01:49
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Horseman#Thunder_Stone
    [quote]Carburis directed workmen to wait for winter, when the ground was frozen, and then had them drag the large stone over the frozen ground to the sea for shipment and transport to the city.[quote]
    That was in 1768 and may be the largest stone ever moved by man.
    They also used ball bearings, ...[text shortened]... about a technique is good enough reason to declare that the whole of Europe was ignorant of it.
    Well I was just repeating what they said in the article. Besides, that was 1768, 3 or 4 hundred years later.
  6. 06 Nov '13 07:36
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Well I was just repeating what they said in the article. Besides, that was 1768, 3 or 4 hundred years later.
    Well I suspect that the writers of the article didn't think it through either.
    And 1768 is only just over 200 years later.

    I must also point out that most large stone moving projects took place in the tropics where there was no ice available which is why the technique was not used for the pyramids or the Mo'ai on Easter Island.

    I am aware that the far east was ahead of Europe on many key technologies at that time, but I am fairly sure that both civilizations were perfectly aware that ice was slippery. I am sure that the writers of the article did not actually do any fact checking as to what people knew about friction in either civilization.
    Its even possible that that sentence was added by a journalist.
  7. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    06 Nov '13 11:44
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Well I suspect that the writers of the article didn't think it through either.
    And 1768 is only just over 200 years later.

    I must also point out that most large stone moving projects took place in the tropics where there was no ice available which is why the technique was not used for the pyramids or the Mo'ai on Easter Island.

    I am aware that the ...[text shortened]... riction in either civilization.
    Its even possible that that sentence was added by a journalist.
    I am sure everyone who ever tried to walk on ice knew it was slippery, that would have been obvious 20,000 years ago much less in the year 1500 but did anyone in Europe actually use it in those years? Probably not. Don't forget, the Chinese invented gunpowder around the year 1000, what, 500 odd years before Europe? Of course they didn't really know what to do with it, using it for pretty fireworks and such, they didn't really know what they had.

    Just like the Babylonian batteries, it seems now fairly certain they had electricity some 5000 years ago but it was tied up in the religious rites of the day, electroplating gold onto statues and there it stood till my guess is the last priest died before being able to pass the secret to his acolytes and there went electricity for 5000 years.

    The ancient Greeks may have know about electricity also, they seem to have had some kind of test of the gods thing where some voltage was applied to these brass handles and you could feel the presence of god by being shocked so some degree. So again it was not recognized as useful beyond religious ends. Just think, if they had known what they had back 5000 years ago and then again 3000 years ago, either of those civilizations could have walked on the moon. Lost opportunity and they didn't even know it.
  8. 06 Nov '13 14:36
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    .... but did anyone in Europe actually use it in those years? Probably not.
    What makes you think that? Sledges for use on snow and ice have an extremely long history.

    Don't forget, the Chinese invented gunpowder around the year 1000, what, 500 odd years before Europe? Of course they didn't really know what to do with it, using it for pretty fireworks and such, they didn't really know what they had.
    Actually cannons were used in the far east before the idea was taken to Europe. Even elementary guns were used. They tended to use spears/arrows as projectiles rather than bullets.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder
    Gunpowder was invented in China. Chinese military forces used gunpowder-based weapons (i.e. rockets, guns, cannons) and explosives (i.e. grenades and different types of bombs) against the Mongols when the Mongols attempted to invade and breach city fortifications on China's northern borders.

    They clearly did know what to do with it.