Science Forum
12 Feb '12 14:31Originally posted by whodey
Are you kidding me, where is your sense of adventure? In the long term, if we cant escape the universe, we're done..., so I'm on the "lets colonize space, so we can start working on colonizing other universes " Surely I'll never see it, but I can imagine!
As a species, is the colonization of space a huge waste of time and resources or is it vital to our interests?- 12 Feb '12 16:51 / 5 edits
Originally posted by joe shmo
I have an tremendous sense of adventure. In fact, as a lad I wanted to go.
Are you kidding me, where is your sense of adventure? In the long term, if we cant escape the universe, we're done..., so I'm on the "lets colonize space, so we can start working on colonizing other universes " Surely I'll never see it, but I can imagine!
However, over the years I've questioned my previous enthusiasm. Why? It's because I've come to the realization that the solar system is lifeless. Can life be brought to a dead planet? It's hard enough to live under the ocean where life exists here on earth.
I guess my mind began to change when they started doing experiments in isolation for a year or so. If I recall, those involved did fine after about a year or so in isoation, then crops began to inexplicably die. Also, I then began to realize that life exists everywhere on earth, no matter how "harsh" the enviroment. Why? These facts began to make me think that maybe we are mssing something. Is there a life giving property on earth that is absent elsewhere?
That aside, lets pretend that life can exist independent of the earth indefinately. You would somehow need to transplant life to a dead planet. What type of existence would that be? To be fair, we are talking about either colonizing the moon or Mars, with Mars being the goal. After all, Mars is less "dead" than the moon because it is more like Earth. Even so, if man went to Mars what kind of existence would it be? More than likely man would have to borrow underground to survive. For what purpose? Would it be just to say we can do it? Psychologically, if nothing else, I think it would be devestaing to our species. - 12 Feb '12 16:51 / 1 edit
Originally posted by joe shmo
Are you kidding me, where is your sense of adventure? In the long term, if we cant escape the universe, we're done..., so I'm on the "lets colonize space, so we can start working on colonizing other universes " Surely I'll never see it, but I can imagine! - 15 Feb '12 19:25 / 3 edits
Originally posted by whodey
You have come to the realization the solar system is lifeless? Where did you get that idea? There are indications of the machinations of life on several planets and moons, for instance, the methane emission of mars, at the rate of decay if not replaced, it would have been gone eons ago, but we still measure methane today, it's 50/50 whether it's life but you can't say out of hand it ISN'T life, could be volcanic activity but my bet is on life.
I have an tremendous sense of adventure. In fact, as a lad I wanted to go.
However, over the years I've questioned my previous enthusiasm. Why? It's because I've come to the realization that the solar system is lifeless. Can life be brought to a dead planet? It's hard enough to live under the ocean where life exists here on earth.
I guess my mind b do it? Psychologically, if nothing else, I think it would be devestaing to our species.
The same thing goes for some of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, there are colors there on the ice of say, Europa, that could be life oriented, upwelling of water from vast underground oceans, in fact more water there than on the Earth and that implies an energy source to keep that water from freezing.
We already know all it takes in the ocean is an upwelling of hot water and life forms around it, sticking around even after the heat stops, evolving to use less energy. There is even indications of anomalies in the UV pattern of the upper clouds of Venus where one explanation is clouds of bacteria floating way above the hell that is the lower atmosphere and surface close to 1000 degrees F and that atmosphere with a high concentration of sulfuric acid at a pressure seen on Earth inside pressurized bottles of gasses, like 1500 pounds per square inch, no life forms we can think of could start there much less evolve.
It is way early to conclude out of hand the rest of the solar system is lifeless.
The big question for me is, if found, say on Europa, is it made up of Earthy DNA or is it something totally alien to us?
If we colonized Mars, say, why would there be any psychological impact on Earth people? I would think people would be happy to know we would survive if we were hit by a comet that may have taken out 80% of the life on Earth, several times in our extreme past. If that were to happen on Earth and enough time had been spent making a Mars colony self sufficient, human life would go on and with whatever level of technology that happened to be around when the big one hits Earth.
Psychological impact of the colonists? For sure, the first colonies, whether Lunar or Mars, would need to be underground simply because that is the easiest way to protect against solar flares attacking a planet with little in the way of magnetic field protection like Earth.
It would probably be like that for a long time on either world but there are ways to technologically give a planet a magnetic field for protection and we know right now there are areas on Mars that are already protected with localized magnetic fields which can deflect solar storms, but eventually we can make a magnetic shield just like Earth's or even stronger with superconducting fields which don't even need energy once in place, just the energy to keep the coils cold.
It would be an insurance policy we may never have to collect on but like most humans, we have insurance so if the unthinkable happens to us personally, we have some backup. - 16 Feb '12 03:32
Originally posted by sonhouse
The solar system is lifeless until they find life.
You have come to the realization the solar system is lifeless? Where did you get that idea? There are indications of the machinations of life on several planets and moons, for instance, the methane emission of mars, at the rate of decay if not replaced, it would have been gone eons ago, but we still measure methane today, it's 50/50 whether it's life but yo ...[text shortened]... ns, we have insurance so if the unthinkable happens to us personally, we have some backup.
As for Mars, eeking out an mere existence in a dark hole somewhere may seem doable, but try doing it. In addition, if you are somehow able to survive, try flourishing there.
I suppose as with most things it comes down to belief. I guess mine has changed over the years. Of course, you are welcomed to yours but I no longer share them. - 16 Feb '12 05:46
Originally posted by whodey
No, it isn't.
The solar system is lifeless until they find life.
As for Mars, eeking out an mere existence in a dark hole somewhere may seem doable, but try doing it.
That depends on the size of the hole. A large enough cave, would not be that much different from living in a house and never going out, something that a surprisingly large number of people do here on earth.
I see no reason why it would have to be dark.
In addition, if you are somehow able to survive, try flourishing there.
Yes, I am sure we would try flourishing there. Whether we succeed or not would have to be seen.
It would take a fairly large civilization to become self sufficient, but with the right technology, a large amount of things could be done with robots.
I suppose as with most things it comes down to belief. I guess mine has changed over the years. Of course, you are welcomed to yours but I no longer share them.
No, it comes down to evidence. Belief is for you religious types. There is no evidence that there is no life in the rest of the solar system, there is no evidence that we cannot survive on mars. You have made what is essentially a religious decision to believe that there is no other life and that there is some magical property on earth that sustains life that is absent elsewhere. - 16 Feb '12 17:32
Originally posted by whodey
So for you if a tree falls in the forest there is no sound unless someone is there to hear it.
The solar system is lifeless until they find life.
As for Mars, eeking out an mere existence in a dark hole somewhere may seem doable, but try doing it. In addition, if you are somehow able to survive, try flourishing there.
I suppose as with most things it comes down to belief. I guess mine has changed over the years. Of course, you are welcomed to yours but I no longer share them.
The solar system is lifeless till we find it. If there is already life on Europa, bacteria even, it doesn't exist till we see it?
