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  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    13 May '14 16:53 / 1 edit
    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/jan2006_awsi_01.htm

    This study shows veggies have less heart attacks with pretty major benefits but only up to age 50 or so. After that the benefits reduce to nearly in the noise, like 8% improvement over meateaters.

    It looks like we have an answer to that too, as this piece shows.

    Seems we need Carnosine and plenty of it, doesn't last long in the body due to being broken down in a few hours by an enzyme.
  2. 13 May '14 17:49
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/jan2006_awsi_01.htm

    This study shows veggies have less heart attacks with pretty major benefits but only up to age 50 or so. After that the benefits reduce to nearly in the noise, like 8% improvement over meateaters.

    It looks like we have an answer to that too, as this piece shows.

    Seems we need Carnosine and plenty of it, doesn't last long in the body due to being broken down in a few hours by an enzyme.
    I find what it says about carnosine quite interesting and I am now doing some research into this. I may even start to buy some carnosine tablets but NOT over the net if I can help it because many tablets sold over the net are fake and often dangerous ( http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm048396.htm ) and not sure how to guarantee I don't get conned
  3. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    13 May '14 17:54 / 8 edits
    Originally posted by humy
    I find what it says about carnosine quite interesting and I am now doing some research into this. I may even start to buy some carnosine tablets but NOT over the net if I can help it because many tablets sold over the net are fake and often dangerous ( http://www.fda.gov/forconsumers/consumerupdates/ucm048396.htm ) and not sure how to guarantee I don't get conned
    Yes, how do you prove you have actual carnosine tabs? You certainly can't do a test of your own, or can you? Wonder if there is someone out there, some back yard genius who has made one?

    I sent this article to my daughter Heather, who lives in Brazil and teaches music at university there, also a vegetarian as is her husband Gandhi. And their two kids too.

    I found carnosine online at Amazon.com and other sites. I called our local GNC health store and they have something called L-carnotine, notice the T, not SINE.

    The onliners have L-carnosine however, if you can, like you say, trust it is carnosine. I wonder what the L stands for?

    I found this site:

    http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-l-carnosine-500-mg-60-caps

    They have an 800 # and I called and they said they are participants in something called the purity and potency standard and became part of that group, an independent testing outfit, before it was required by the US government so I guess they are on the up and up.

    Their prices are a LOT better than I saw at Amazon it looks like. about 17 bucks US for 60 each 500 mg pills.

    Have no idea what that means, how much you should take, since the study says it is gone from your blood in less than 6 hours so I would assume to get the best use you would need to take it at least twice a day. I don't think the doses have been worked out yet.

    So far the prices I saw were from about 28 cents US per pill to over 50 cents per pill, 28 cents being the company I mentioned, Swanson.

    The next question is what is the shelf life and would we be able to get volume discounts? For instance, if this one company advertises the stuff for 28 cents a pill, what volume would we have to be to get the price down to say, 10 cents a pill? I would think that would be a lot more affordable since even at 28 cents a pill and if you need 2 a day, over 50 cents a day or about 180 dollars US per year per person, would you spend that much? At 10 cents a pill, or 20 cents a day or something like 60 dollars a year, I could take that.

    At the others where it is 50 cents or so per 500 mg pill, 2 a day, 1 dollar a day or over 350 dollars a year. Lot of bread for a pill you maybe need for the rest of your life.

    Also found a site that explains the difference between L-carotine and L-carnosine. Not even close, totally different effects in the body:

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/493759-carnosine-vs-carnitine/

    I found out about the L, it is the natural version and there is a more artificial version called D-carnotine and sine which apparently does not digest as well. I see I keep mis-spelling the T version, it is carnitine not carnotine,
  4. 13 May '14 19:57
    Everyone should supplement for a healthier heart.

    http://www.heartmdinstitute.com/nutrition/supplements
  5. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    13 May '14 23:22
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Yes, how do you prove you have actual carnosine tabs? You certainly can't do a test of your own, or can you? Wonder if there is someone out there, some back yard genius who has made one?

    I sent this article to my daughter Heather, who lives in Brazil and teaches music at university there, also a vegetarian as is her husband Gandhi. And their two kids to ...[text shortened]... does not digest as well. I see I keep mis-spelling the T version, it is carnitine not carnotine,
    I recommend checking with your doctor before wasting your money.
  6. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    13 May '14 23:42
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I recommend checking with your doctor before wasting your money.
    My doc is an OD and probably doesn't know a lot about nutrients needed by the body. Maybe not. It might be good advice but the article clearly says this carosine goes away in the body because of enzymes breaking them down quickly so it might mean you need a more steady dose of the stuff. I don't fall for every new supplement that comes around, like the fad for resveratrol now shown maybe not to help as much as they thought. I just bought my favorite wine instead.
  7. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    14 May '14 12:33 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Yes, how do you prove you have actual carnosine tabs? You certainly can't do a test of your own, or can you? Wonder if there is someone out there, some back yard genius who has made one?

    I sent this article to my daughter Heather, who lives in Brazil and teaches music at university there, also a vegetarian as is her husband Gandhi. And their two kids to ...[text shortened]... does not digest as well. I see I keep mis-spelling the T version, it is carnitine not carnotine,
    I found carnosine online at Amazon.com and other sites. I called our local GNC health store and they have something called L-carnotine, notice the T, not SINE.

    The onliners have L-carnosine however, if you can, like you say, trust it is carnosine. I wonder what the L stands for?

    The L is to do with chirality and is a way of designating the compound's stereochemistry. Only the L-form is biologically active.

    Carnitine and carnosine are different chemicals. The Wikipedia pages on them are quite comprehensive.

    Carnitine is present in all sorts of foods vegetarians will find acceptable. I don't know about carnosine. I'd tend to avoid supplements unless there is a better reason than "They might be good for me". The only vitamin really worth worrying about is B12, which is pretty ubiquitous anyway. There is no good clinical evidence that dietary supplements have any health benefits. As far as I'm aware all the trials found only harms (such as beta-carotine in smokers) and no benefits.
  8. 14 May '14 14:21
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I recommend checking with your doctor before wasting your money.
    How do doctors make money?

    They make money in two ways: finding something wrong with you and giving a prescription. If you are healthy they can't make money from you. Making people healthy is a conflict of interest for both doctors and the people who train them.
  9. 14 May '14 14:57
    Originally posted by Eladar
    How do doctors make money?

    They make money in two ways: finding something wrong with you and giving a prescription. If you are healthy they can't make money from you. Making people healthy is a conflict of interest for both doctors and the people who train them.
    Would be best if doctors were hired by the state then, guaranteed a pay
    whether or not they have any patients. That way, you could trust them to do
    their best, because they'd rather not have any patients at all. Right?
  10. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    14 May '14 15:03 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by C Hess
    Would be best if doctors were hired by the state then, guaranteed a pay
    whether or not they have any patients. That way, you could trust them to do
    their best, because they'd rather not have any patients at all. Right?
    Even if we reached a state where everyone was healthy for hundreds of years there would still be falls out of trees, craft colliding and such requiring emergency care so doc's will never run out of business.

    In that case there would just be less call for doctors for instance if you need a new kidney you get a kidney pill and it rebuilds your old one so you get the kidney pill at a kiosk in the mall and go on your way.

    Then the doctors left over would be making megabucks I suppose but no room for new ones since everyone at that stage in our development would be living hundreds of years of healthy life.
  11. 14 May '14 16:27
    Originally posted by C Hess
    Would be best if doctors were hired by the state then, guaranteed a pay
    whether or not they have any patients. That way, you could trust them to do
    their best, because they'd rather not have any patients at all. Right?
    No, it would be best if doctors simply paid for services rendered and did not have to go through insurance company hoops. Get insurance and pharmaceutical industry out of the doctor's business.

    Buyer beware. It is a simple but true saying and if you don't have your eyes open and think for yourself you will be taken advantage.
  12. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    14 May '14 16:31
    Originally posted by Eladar
    No, it would be best if doctors simply paid for services rendered and did not have to go through insurance company hoops. Get insurance and pharmaceutical industry out of the doctor's business.

    Buyer beware. It is a simple but true saying and if you don't have your eyes open and think for yourself you will be taken advantage.
    What about the part where they want to charge 10,000 bucks to fix a hernia or something? You want to pay that?
  13. 14 May '14 16:34
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What about the part where they want to charge 10,000 bucks to fix a hernia or something? You want to pay that?
    When they can't do operations because people can't afford them, the prices will drop. Supply and demand.

    You are old enough that you should remember the days when people could afford to go to the doctor, even if payment was a chicken or a pig.
  14. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    14 May '14 16:42
    Originally posted by Eladar
    When they can't do operations because people can't afford them, the prices will drop. Supply and demand.

    You are old enough that you should remember the days when people could afford to go to the doctor, even if payment was a chicken or a pig.
    But in order to do a clean operation you need very expensive machinery, suppose you need to have a tumor removed next to your brain and you need to use xray probes to guide the moves or something, that stuff cost's megabucks and how do you pay for that? A 10% surcharge on the doctor's bill?

    It's not like back in 1900 where the doc came to your house and administered some potion and put ice on a bruise.
  15. 14 May '14 17:29
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    But in order to do a clean operation you need very expensive machinery, suppose you need to have a tumor removed next to your brain and you need to use xray probes to guide the moves or something, that stuff cost's megabucks and how do you pay for that? A 10% surcharge on the doctor's bill?

    It's not like back in 1900 where the doc came to your house and administered some potion and put ice on a bruise.
    You need very expensive machinery to sterilize equipment? I don't think that is true. Sure you could use very expensive equipment, but I think the technology used in the 70's and 80's to sterilize equipment is pretty cheap.