Has the Real Garden of Eden Been Found?

Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa around 200 thousand years ago (ka). Although some of the oldest skeletal remains suggest an eastern African origin, southern Africa is home to contemporary populations that represent the earliest branch of human genetic phylogeny. Here we generate, to our knowledge, the largest resource for the poorly represented and deepest-rooting maternal L0 mitochondrial DNA branch (198 new mitogenomes for a total of 1,217 mitogenomes) from contemporary southern Africans and show the geographical isolation of L0d1’2, L0k and L0g KhoeSan descendants south of the Zambezi river in Africa. By establishing mitogenomic timelines, frequencies and dispersals, we show that the L0 lineage emerged within the residual Makgadikgadi–Okavango palaeo-wetland of southern Africa, approximately 200 ka (95% confidence interval, 240–165 ka). Genetic divergence points to a sustained 70,000-year-long existence of the L0 lineage before an out-of-homeland northeast–southwest dispersal between 130 and 110 ka. Palaeo-climate proxy and model data suggest that increased humidity opened green corridors, first to the northeast then to the southwest. Subsequent drying of the homeland corresponds to a sustained effective population size (L0k), whereas wet–dry cycles and probable adaptation to marine foraging allowed the southwestern migrants to achieve population growth (L0d1’2), as supported by extensive south-coastal archaeological evidence. Taken together, we propose a southern African origin of anatomically modern humans with sustained homeland occupation before the first migrations of people that appear to have been driven by regional climate changes.

All that sounds reasonable, but Eden happened much later in the Persian Gulf region:

http://ldolphin.org/eden/

Eden wasn't the beginning of humanity but the beginning of Western civilization.

the garden of eden is in northeast iran ( a land in that area which is pre-persian ).
it is a valley known in that old language as "idin". it has four rivers around it and a river running thru it. the climate is mediterrean. to the east, beyond the eastern
mountain gorge ( in that old language ) was known by something ( remembering as best i can ) by a name with six letters with three of the letters being ( in english )
"n", "o" and "d". ( the land of nod ) where cain was banished out of "idin". i could write more but there is a bill collector at the front door.

@AThousandYoung

eden is not the birthplace of western civilization. it is the narrative birthplace of the abrahamic religions.

500 bc greece is the birthplace of western civilization. the birth of reason.

@wildgrass said
[quote]Anatomically modern humans originated in Africa around 200 thousand years ago (ka). Although some of the oldest skeletal remains suggest an eastern African origin, southern Africa is home to contemporary populations that represent the earliest branch of human genetic phylogeny. Here we generate, to our knowledge, the largest resource for the poorly represented and de ...[text shortened]... nials would be so mad if that happened now.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1714-1.pdf

Genetic divergence points to a sustained 70,000-year-long existence of the L0 lineage before an out-of-homeland northeast–southwest dispersal between 130 and 110 ka.

@deepthought said
I tend to agree:

Genetic divergence points to a sustained 70,000-year-long existence of the L0 lineage before an out-of-homeland northeast–southwest dispersal between 130 and 110 ka.

That's a fair bit of time, but they have to get to Europe and Asia before the Neanderthals and Denisovians die out and there's enough of them left to explain the presence of their DNA in European and Asian populations.

@mister-moggy said
the garden of eden is in northeast iran ( a land in that area which is pre-persian ).
it is a valley known in that old language as "idin". it has four rivers around it and a river running thru it. the climate is mediterrean. to the east, beyond the eastern
mountain gorge ( in that old language ) was known by something ( remembering as best i can ) by a name with six ...[text shortened]... ain was banished out of "idin". i could write more but there is a bill collector at the front door.

@mister-moggy said
@AThousandYoung

eden is not the birthplace of western civilization. it is the narrative birthplace of the abrahamic religions.

500 bc greece is the birthplace of western civilization. the birth of reason.

https://www.timemaps.com/encyclopedia/origins-of-civilization/

A small number of major river valleys in different parts of the Eastern Hemipshere played a critical role as cradles of civilization: it was here that all the “original” or “foundational” civilizations – those which did not owe their development to other, older civilizations – emerged. The great civilizations of Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Indus Valley and China all belonged to this category (whilst those of Greece, Rome, Japan and Korea are examples of secondary civilizations, as they owed their existence to earlier ones).

@AThousandYoung

kemet ( known to you modern folk as eygpt ) was not a place of reason.

hippos as gods ? the ka and the ba as souls moving toward the western horizon ?

@AThousandYoung

the four rivers around "idin" are not the mesotapemian rivers.

@mister-moggy said
@AThousandYoung

the four rivers around "idin" are not the mesotapemian rivers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden#Genesis

Genesis 2:10–14 lists four rivers in association with the garden of Eden: Pishon, Gihon, Chidekel (the Tigris), and Phirat (the Euphrates).

@mister-moggy said
@AThousandYoung

kemet ( known to you modern folk as eygpt ) was not a place of reason.

hippos as gods ? the ka and the ba as souls moving toward the western horizon ?

@athousandyoung said
Civilization isn't based on "reason" its based on settlements and agriculture.

@moonbus said
CIVILization is based on transferring the remediation of injustice from blood feuding clans to a CIVIC authority.