Originally posted by EladarIt is showing a difference, clearly, but which one is right? I'm sure the climate deniers will show the downward trend and the alarmists the upwards trend. The way things have heated up in the US in the past few years, I would say things have heated up not cooled down. When we moved into Pennsylvania 30 years ago, the guy next door was 94 years old and still kicking, climbing fences, doing yardwork and so forth, spry old guy and nice. Anyway, he told us when he was a kid (19th century!) it was very very cold in town, as much as 20 degrees below 0 F, every year in winter.
Truth will do that to some people.
Now it may get to zero but not much below. He also said there was a lot more snow every year, feet after feet but now, maybe every 5 years we get a four foot snow.
At least around here, it is clear things are heating up.
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After looking at this story a bit [the link in the OP is pretty much conspiracy gibberish so I hunted around]
it looks like that there are some problems with the way NOAA has been handling this particular data set.
Although no current sign of any malicious tampering, just incompetence... Which is generally more likely a-priori.
Quite what the results of these mistakes are have not yet been determined, and figuring out the mess will take
time.
However, I would like to point out, that a fault in one type of temperature gathering in one country coving less
than 2% of the global surface area does not indicate a more general fault in the global data set, which is produced
by multiple different methods by many different institutions and countries.
This does not in any way disprove global warming.
Humans make mistakes, and it looks like a bunch of people have made a mistake or two here.
However science corrects for those mistakes.
This is why there I no one single temperature record recorded by one methodology.
There are many direct and indirect temperature records, all of which agree that there has been and continues to be an
increase in global average temperature.
Ocean temperature measurements continue to show a huge increase in ocean thermal energy content.
Satellites continue to show a significant energy imbalance between energy in and energy out.
The world is warming. And our CO2 emissions are still by far the most likely cause.
What this does highlight is the value of having skeptics around questioning things, these mistakes were not spotted
by the scientists relying on this data. Mainly I suspect because they simply trusted the scientists at NOAA to get
it right.
The problem is not that these skeptics exist, it's that mass media promotes them and their message way beyond
what is justified.
This is being reported in major national and international outlets as if this is evidence of a giant conspiracy to claim
that global warming is happening because... I really don't know why... and that this is a significant blow to the evidence
we have the global warming is happening. When in reality this is not any kind of significant blow to the evidence we have
for global warming, or climate change. And it's almost certainly simple incompetence/bad judgement as opposed to malicious
action. However a dry story about a technical screw-up that will have effected quite a number of researchers work and
will be quite an embarrassment to the scientists involved but is otherwise just part of the run of the mill human errors
being caught by the application of skepticism and science despite our human failings... Well that just doesn't sell copy,
or meet their pre-determined agenders.
The guy who broke this story is not just a skeptic, but a denier. Who is very often totally wrong, and got the wrong
end of the stick with this story. But as a salutary lesson to those who look at the messenger and not the message
he did uncover a problem. That others homed in on and might now be fixed.
It's just sad that this will yet again feed the denier-sphere and hold up action in dealing with this pressing issue.
Originally posted by googlefudgeIt's like the moon landing deniers, their arguments grow weaker as each year adds to the proof it is getting serious. Moon landing conspiracies just poop out with time when they find no collaboration from China or Russia, both countries know full well we landed men on the moon.
After looking at this story a bit [the link in the OP is pretty much conspiracy gibberish so I hunted around]
it looks like that there are some problems with the way NOAA has been handling this particular data set.
Although no current sign of any malicious tampering, just incompetence... Which is generally more likely a-priori.
Quite what the result ...[text shortened]... is will yet again feed the denier-sphere and hold up action in dealing with this pressing issue.
The post that was quoted here has been removedThere are certainly media companies clearly biased, like Fox news. If any report came out like that, Fox news would be leading the way. If and when China sends 'taikonauts' to the moon, I expect nothing but congratulations in most media outlets.
What takes place behind closed doors at the upper echelons of government will be a totally different affair for sure.
"Space race, renewed' something like that will be happening again.
I hope this time a renewed space race actually leads to something.
I worked on Apollo, 'Apollo tracking and timing', two jobs, one of which was the atomic clocks which had to be sync'd world wide within 100 nanoseconds, and a transponder onboard Apollo itself that allowed an exact distance measure to the craft.
But as soon as the last Apollo landed, 12 men on the moon, Nixon dissed the whole program, 'now that we beat the Ruskies to the moon, a publicity stunt and no more', I am sure were words spoken behind closed doors and that was that for deep space manned travel. So here we are closing in on 50 years later and no more manned flights past the ISS and with the latest mandate from the President, to go to Mars, the Apollo Saturn 5 super rocket had to be rebuilt from scratch, the plans literally put in a dumpster back in the 70's.
Of course the newest version will be more powerful due to 50 years of technological growth, we are still having to use Russian rockets to get men to the space station.
Pretty sad end of a magnificent achievement. Personally, I sent email congratulations to the Chinese for their first manned flight, I applauded them.
The post that was quoted here has been removedApparently not every American reviled him, here is a bit about him when he died:
"Father of American rocketry"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/world/asia/04qian.html?_r=0
The McCarthy era was one of the most horrible episodes in American history. Another one was Anslinger and Hoover making Marijuana illegal and the prohibition era.
3 sad times in US history. A man I admired greatly, Pete Seeger, was blacklisted by the McCarthy era and the singing group he was in also blacklisted, the Weavers, who had a couple of # 1 hits in 1950. I met Pete a couple of times, even played a quick opening act for him, he was a great man.
Originally posted by sonhouseDo you think USA from that time was better or worse than, say, Iran is today?
Apparently not every American reviled him, here is a bit about him when he died:
"Father of American rocketry"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/world/asia/04qian.html?_r=0
The McCarthy era was one of the most horrible episodes in American history. Another one was Anslinger and Hoover making Marijuana illegal and the prohibition era.
3 sad time ...[text shortened]... 1950. I met Pete a couple of times, even played a quick opening act for him, he was a great man.
If not - can you compare USA from that time with a better example from our time?
Originally posted by FabianFnasFrom that time, I would say there was a noticeable lack of freedom of the press, just like Iran, but they didn't kill outright because you published a piece dissing the government, they got you financially, make you unable to hold a job. If it hadn't been for Anslinger and J Edward Hoover and the prohibition era, there would not be the sheer size of the cartels and mafia around today. Before that disgusting era, all that was small time but those two made the cartels what they are today.
Do you think USA from that time was better or worse than, say, Iran is today?
If not - can you compare USA from that time with a better example from our time?
No going back of course but the world is far worse off because of those two people.
J edgar Hoover, ATT head of the FBI, hated blacks and Mexicans so when Anslinger proposed making marijuana illegal, it gave Hoover the weapon he needed to pursue his sick agenda.
He was a piece of work, reported to dress in women's clothes.....