Neutrino travels faster than light?...wow

Originally posted by sonhouse
Some kind of extra dimensionality to neutrino's might explain their tiny mass, like the theories that explains the weakness of gravity as traversing several extra dimensions and it gets diluted strength wise.

I wonder if something like that might be happening to neutrino's, if their existence crosses dimensions, maybe they are the other side of another ...[text shortened]... re and the rest of the mass is in the other universe.

Some more half baked Sonhousisms🙂

Gravity is postulated as possibly leaking out into different dimensions as an explanation for why it is so weak.
But I am not aware of any previous facet of neutrino behaviour needing explanation via extra dimension leakage.

The trouble with postulating a solution for the result at cern is that it not only has to explain how they got there faster
than light, but also why until now nothing else has ever done so.

I would wait till the experiment gets replicated to get excited.
Till then systematic error is far more likely.

Although I would really love it to be possible to travel faster than light.

There is an afferism, you can have any two of Causality, SR, and FTL.... but not all three.
I would hate to think we don't have causality, and i really want ftl.... so SR dying would be kinda nice.
But it's replacement would have to explain everywhere where SR has been right up until now.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Gravity is postulated as possibly leaking out into different dimensions as an explanation for why it is so weak.
But I am not aware of any previous facet of neutrino behaviour needing explanation via extra dimension leakage.

The trouble with postulating a solution for the result at cern is that it not only has to explain how they got there faster
th ...[text shortened]... .
But it's replacement would have to explain everywhere where SR has been right up until now.

If we assume there is no systemic error and the results get reproduced and we find the neutrino actually does exist partially in our dimensions and extra ones, it wouldn't help with any kind of sought after faster than light drive since it would only show a small change in the direction it travels, somehow 'puncturing' our dimension and flying through flatter space. I think it would be a great harbinger of new physics, maybe the clue we need to finally get a quantum gravity theory that satisfies relativity and quantum mechanics together.

If that happens, then maybe there is a chance for a real hyperspace drive.

Personally, I hope that is exactly what happens!

http://xkcd.com/955/

Originally posted by googlefudge
Gravity is postulated as possibly leaking out into different dimensions as an explanation for why it is so weak.
But I am not aware of any previous facet of neutrino behaviour needing explanation via extra dimension leakage.

The trouble with postulating a solution for the result at cern is that it not only has to explain how they got there faster
th ...[text shortened]... .
But it's replacement would have to explain everywhere where SR has been right up until now.

Acording to quantum theory, and a lot of it proven, and according to Murray Gell-Man, a photon sister can be in two places at once, once split. I think you would somewhat agree with this??

However, both knowing what they are doing as a 'singular entity, on opposite sides of a galaxy or even one of the universes, can you please tell me how they communicate their knowledge to each other without having something faster than the speed of light? 🙂

Or, is it simply that intrinsic knowledge travels at unknown speed? 😀 😀

-m.

Originally posted by mikelom
Acording to quantum theory, and a lot of it proven, and according to Murray Gell-Man, a photon sister can be in two places at once, once split. I think you would somewhat agree with this??

However, both knowing what they are doing as a 'singular entity, on opposite sides of a galaxy or even one of the universes, can you please tell me how they communicate ...[text shortened]... f light? 🙂

Or, is it simply that intrinsic knowledge travels at unknown speed? 😀 😀

-m.

If we knew the answer to that question there would for sure be a Nobel prize in the offing🙂 But more precisely, if two entangled photons which are entangled say by polarity, say one up and down polarized and the other left and right polarized, no matter how far apart they are, when one is measured, the other assumes a different polarity.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I would wait till the experiment gets replicated to get excited.
Till then systematic error is far more likely.

Quite right.

In fact, that is the very reason CERN have put this out there in the first place. It would be better if more "science" journalists remembered (or even understood) that.

These guys at CERN aren't idiots. They're not starry-eyed loonies, either. They know that this result is likely to be wrong. In fact, they have tried more than once to prove it wrong. But, possibly for the same reason that it is impossible for an author to proofread his own text (something else most journalists (not to mention their managers) refuse to admit, these days), they have not been able to find the error in their set-up. So what they're doing here consists not of: "Look, ma, broke the very fundament of space-time with my hands off the handlebar!"; instead, it boils down to "Look, guys, we got this daft result and we can't find out why we got it. Someone please point out where we got it wrong."

But that's probably too sane and boring to report.

Richard

Originally posted by sonhouse
If we knew the answer to that question there would for sure be a Nobel prize in the offing🙂 But more precisely, if two entangled photons which are entangled say by polarity, say one up and down polarized and the other left and right polarized, no matter how far apart they are, when one is measured, the other assumes a different polarity.

Agreed. In fact I'd go one step further. They actually have knowledge as to whether or not they are being observed, in MHO. However, to observe them we must use some kind of light source to mirror their status. When they know this they change format and status also. Little bloody alien things! 😀 😀

Almost like Dasa's threads and posts..... continually changing in status and demonstrated knowledge! 😉

-m.

Originally posted by mikelom
Agreed. In fact I'd go one step further. They actually have knowledge as to whether or not they are being observed, in MHO. However, to observe them we must use some kind of light source to mirror their status. When they know this they change format and status also. Little bloody alien things! 😀 😀

Almost like Dasa's threads and posts..... continually changing in status and demonstrated knowledge! 😉

-m.

There are ways to temporarily get around the uncertainty principle, they can 'squeeze' light in such a way as to temporarily be able to lower certain noise limits and is in the process of being used to get at least double the sensitivity of some gravity wave detectors, for instance, upgrades like this are being worked out at LIGO.

With that in mind, what I am really curious about is if and/or when will quantum dudes be able to use that entanglement thing to get information across huge distances instantaneously and at least get information going faster than the speed of light.

There must be some uber tricky modulation scheme that fools the uncertainty principle just enough to sneak through information like that.

Originally posted by sonhouse
There are ways to temporarily get around the uncertainty principle, they can 'squeeze' light in such a way as to temporarily be able to lower certain noise limits and is in the process of being used to get at least double the sensitivity of some gravity wave detectors, for instance, upgrades like this are being worked out at LIGO.

With that in mind, wha ...[text shortened]... cheme that fools the uncertainty principle just enough to sneak through information like that.

Why must that be the case? It would violate relativity in the same way as neutrino's travelling faster than light would.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Why must that be the case? It would violate relativity in the same way as neutrino's travelling faster than light would.

You 'violate' the rules for a very limited amount of time, you kind of borrow one kind of uncertainty to help out with some physics problem but you have to restore the order to keep up the principle. Here is a link to some of these 'squeezed light' results.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-09-laser-gravitational-day.html

Originally posted by uzless
A fundamental pillar of physics – that nothing can go faster than the speed of light – appears to be smashed by an oddball subatomic particle that has apparently made a giant end run around Albert Einstein’s theories.

Scientists at the world’s largest physics lab said Thursday they have clocked neutrinos travelling faster than light. That’s something that ...[text shortened]... il.com/news/technology/science/scientists-in-shock-after-breaking-speed-of-light/article2176328/

Thanks for the link. Wow, let us wait and see what happens when the experiment is duplicated.

Looks like it is confirmed...

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/11/neutrino_experiment_affirms_fa.html

Originally posted by shahenshah
Looks like it is confirmed...

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/11/neutrino_experiment_affirms_fa.html

This is a refinement of the original experiment, not an independent verification. We still have to wait for definitive results.

Curious that something could travel faster than light, when massless particles can travel only @ light speed.

Keeping in step with having no-mass and going light speed, could neutrinos have a negitive mass, or energy?

Since the expansion rate of the universe is thought to break this speed limit, from time to time & with a correlation between dark energy pulling apart the expanding universe.

Maybe these, faster than light & lighter than mass? neutrinos are 'shedding some light' as evidence in the case for dark energy's role.

Originally posted by apsol
Curious that something could travel faster than light, when massless particles can travel only @ light speed.

Keeping in step with having no-mass and going light speed, could neutrinos have a negitive mass, or energy?

Since the expansion rate of the universe is thought to break this speed limit, from time to time & with a correlation between dark energy ...[text shortened]... han mass? neutrinos are 'shedding some light' as evidence in the case for dark energy's role.

Hypothetical particles traveling faster than light would have imaginary mass, not negative mass. A negative energy solution is usually associated with antiparticles.