15 Nov 19
@sonhouse
So, basically they've discovered a clean liquid fuel, similar to alcohol, but with far greater energy density ... am I close? I'll believe it when I see it; and I hope they're careful and don't blow themselves up.
15 Nov 19
@sonhouse
This is a major breakthrough in chemistry and not to be belittled.
BUT it is not an energy carrier for the next few decades that is for sure. They made very small amounts at liquid nitorgen temperature...(that alone could be the killer, to achive the temperature you probably need more energy than you can store in the compund), with a Laser using a highly exothermic compund in the first place.
I understand that the researcher need to fit in financing models, so they have to claim that it will be an energy carrier perhaps, if and if and if....
16 Nov 19
@Ponderable
My question is how do they extract the energy once stored like that? Pressure? Heat? What kind of energy are they talking about?
16 Nov 19
@sonhouse saidWell the compund is highly exothermnic, so it will readily decay into N2 again. This will probably explosive. You can drive (hypothetically) a motor, weher you even don't need air to enable the explosive decomposition.
@Ponderable
My question is how do they extract the energy once stored like that? Pressure? Heat? What kind of energy are they talking about?
16 Nov 19
@ponderable saidWell, it's better than superconducting magnets which need to be at liquid helium temperatures and that is an up and running technology. I imagine it would need a large plant to operate. Nuclear power plants are typically run at full capacity, at least in the UK. I don't know whether this is a matter of economics or of technology, but it does mean that one cannot expand the amount of nuclear generation beyond that used during the nighttime. The ability to store energy from nuclear generated at night for use during the day, reduces the need for carbon emitting power stations. So having a potential additional way of doing that is a good thing.
@sonhouse
This is a major breakthrough in chemistry and not to be belittled.
BUT it is not an energy carrier for the next few decades that is for sure. They made very small amounts at liquid nitorgen temperature...(that alone could be the killer, to achive the temperature you probably need more energy than you can store in the compund), with a Laser using a highly ex ...[text shortened]... ancing models, so they have to claim that it will be an energy carrier perhaps, if and if and if....
17 Nov 19
@deepthought saidIndeed we use superconducting magnets, but those don't need to be warmed at all, so that the energy we need to coll them down is spend once. After that you "just" need to replenish what is lost by insufficient insulation.
Well, it's better than superconducting magnets which need to be at liquid helium temperatures and that is an up and running technology. I imagine it would need a large plant to operate. Nuclear power plants are typically run at full capacity, at least in the UK. I don't know whether this is a matter of economics or of technology, but it does mean that one cannot expand ...[text shortened]... carbon emitting power stations. So having a potential additional way of doing that is a good thing.
In this case you need to cool down the already quite expensive (energy-wise) azid and then cool it to liquid nitrogen temperature. Since you want to store energy you probably have big difficulties in doing heat integration to keep the expensive low temperatures in the sytsme. Since the compound is only stable up to about -50° C you also need kryo-equipment to use it all.
So even if we could think about a way to make more than a few mg (and we would need millions of tons per day) at higher temperatures atrting from less expensive material the use as energy storgae is not feasible.
17 Nov 19
@sonhouse saidThe military is interested in explosives which can be handled dafely. I don't see that here. Azid, which is a starting material here has been used in ignition caps, but I think has been replaced.
@Ponderable
Sounds like the military will be interested in that aspect, eh.
17 Nov 19
1 edit
@ponderable saidWhat is azid? It seems unlikely that this is a typo as you've used the term twice, or do you mean acid? Wikipedia gives a couple of results, both Azithromycin, which is an anti-biotic, and LSD seem unlikely.
The military is interested in explosives which can be handled dafely. I don't see that here. Azid, which is a starting material here has been used in ignition caps, but I think has been replaced.
Edit: I looked more carefully. Azid is German, in English it is Azide. N_3- anion, in inorganic chemistry.
17 Nov 19
@deepthought saidmy bad, sorry about the confusion 🙁
What is azid? It seems unlikely that this is a typo as you've used the term twice, or do you mean acid? Wikipedia gives a couple of results, both Azithromycin, which is an anti-biotic, and LSD seem unlikely.
Edit: I looked more carefully. Azid is German, in English it is Azide. N_3- anion, in inorganic chemistry.
18 Nov 19
1 edit
@Ponderable
So Azid is the correct term?
Also, are you saying if we were able to make commercial quantities of N6 it would be unstable and therefore basically useless?
18 Nov 19
@sonhouse saidIn German, as Deepthought pointed out it should be Azide in English
@Ponderable
So Azid is the correct term?
18 Nov 19
@sonhouse saidIf it wasn't unstable it would not be useful as an energy source. We couldn't have nuclear power if nuclear weapons were impossible.
@Ponderable
So Azid is the correct term?
Also, are you saying if we were able to make commercial quantities of N6 it would be unstable and therefore basically useless?
18 Nov 19
@ponderable saidDon't worry, I'd never heard of azide and learnt a little more than if you'd used the English term.
my bad, sorry about the confusion 🙁