Originally posted by sonhouseIt would still fry the alternator and battery.
One weakness of the skateboard EMP idea is this: What if the crim is driving a diesel? There are no spark plugs, the engine, especially older ones, have practically no engine electronics, therefore an EMP pulse would have no effect.
Originally posted by sonhouseit depends on what jurisdiction, probably, and/or how much risk he's posing. i remember a cop show where the perp wouldn't stop, they followed him around then shot and killed him through the back window.
It would take the warrant of a terrorist to go to that much trouble, the average convenience store robbery would not get that much attention. Remember OJ? They just followed him around for a few hours, no shots fired because they didn't want to hit civilians. Well that was what they said anyway. If I knew about the EMP thing and was planning a bank robbery ...[text shortened]... in a crash. They would probably like to stop the car before the perp kills someone by accident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics#History
History
* 1969: Volkswagen introduces the first on-board computer system with scanning capability, in their fuel-injected Type 3 models.
* 1975: Datsun 280Z On-board computers begin appearing on consumer vehicles, largely motivated by their need for real-time tuning of fuel injection systems. Simple OBD implementations appear, though there is no standardization in what is monitored or how it is reported.
* 1980: General Motors implements a proprietary interface and protocol for testing of the Engine Control Module (ECM) on the vehicle assembly line. The 'assembly line diagnostic link' (ALDL) protocol communicates at 160 baud with Pulse-width modulation (PWM) signaling and monitors very few vehicle systems. Implemented on California vehicles for the 1980 model year, and the rest of the United States in 1981, the ALDL was not intended for use outside the factory. The only available function for the owner is "Blinky Codes". By connecting pins A and B (with ignition key ON and engine OFF), the 'Check Engine Light' (CEL) blinks out a two-digit number that corresponds to a specific error condition. Cadillac (gasoline) fuel-injected vehicles, however, are equipped with actual on-board diagnostics, providing trouble codes, actuator tests and sensor data through the new digital Electronic Climate Control display. Holding down 'Off' and 'Warmer' for several seconds activates the diagnostic mode without need for an external scan-tool.
* 1986: An upgraded version of the ALDL protocol appears which communicates at 8192 baud with half-duplex UART signaling. This protocol is defined in GM XDE-5024B.
* ~1987: The California Air Resources Board (CARB) requires that all new vehicles sold in California starting in manufacturer's year 1988 (MY1988) have some basic OBD capability. These requirements are generally referred to as "OBD-I", though this name is not applied until the introduction of OBD-II. The data link connector and its position are not standardized, nor is the data protocol.
* 1988: The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) recommends a standardized diagnostic connector and set of diagnostic test signals.
* ~1994: Motivated by a desire for a state-wide emissions testing program, the CARB issues the OBD-II specification and mandates that it be adopted for all cars sold in California starting in model year 1996 (see CCR Title 13 Section 1968.1 and 40 CFR Part 86 Section 86.094). The DTCs and connector suggested by the SAE are incorporated into this specification.
* 1996: The OBD-II specification is made mandatory for all cars sold in the United States.
* 2001: The European Union makes EOBD mandatory for all petrol vehicles sold in the European Union, starting in MY2001 (see European emission standards Directive 98/69/EC [1] ).
* 2008: All cars sold in the United States are required to use the ISO 15765-4 [2] signaling standard (a variant of the Controller Area Network (CAN) bus).
* 2008: Certain light vehicles in China are required by the Environmental Protection Administration Office to implement OBD (standard GB18352[1]) by July 1, 2008[2]. Some regional exemptions may apply.
* 2010: HDOBD (heavy duty) specification is made mandatory for selected commercial (non-passenger car) engines sold in the United States.
your 10-yo heap probably has anti-lock brakes, if so it has a brake controller to control the ABS system.
but your keyfob couldn't talk to it.
needs a physical connection through a connector to talk to the brake controller. the OBD-II connector is standard, but the ABS connectors likely aren't. twhitehead will need to carry around a bag full of connectors and an analyzer that can talk to various controllers if he wants to pull out the right one to hack your ride.
see also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system#Design_and_selection_of_components
Originally posted by FabianFnasThe original article says nothing about accessing the brakes through the key.
A computer, of course, but electronic brakes accessible via the car key, no...?
My car is 1996 I think, and I am sure it has a computer in the engine and another in the car alarm (which is newer). The two computers do not talk to each other.
However my car alarm does connect to the ignition (and can disable it), which means it could potentially turn off the engine when the car is in motion. I have power brakes and power steering both driven by the engine, and both become harder to use once the engine is turned off, so potentially the alarm system could cause a lot of problems if I was going fast enough.
However, it is highly unlikely that the signalling the key uses to communicate with the alarm is sufficient to inject any form of code into the alarms computer.
Originally posted by twhiteheadSonhouse wrote "doing neat things like clamping on the brakes at an inopportune time" in his first posting, and I thought he read it in the article...
The original article says nothing about accessing the brakes through the key.
My car is 1996 I think, and I am sure it has a computer in the engine and another in the car alarm (which is newer). The two computers do not talk to each other.
However my car alarm does connect to the ignition (and can disable it), which means it could potentially turn ...[text shortened]... to communicate with the alarm is sufficient to inject any form of code into the alarms computer.
Well, I'm more concered that my car can be robbed by its contents, if, when I park my car using the key signal to lock the car a bad guy record my signal and resend it to my car, fooling it that I'm coming back. He cannot start my car with anything but the original key, but he could get in in it and take whatever is in there.
Originally posted by FabianFnasI bet that if a thief could replicate your keys signal then he would have little trouble starting the car. The key itself works little more than a mechanical switch which is easily forced or bypassed.
Well, I'm more concered that my car can be robbed by its contents, if, when I park my car using the key signal to lock the car a bad guy record my signal and resend it to my car, fooling it that I'm coming back. He cannot start my car with anything but the original key, but he could get in in it and take whatever is in there.
A good modern alarm however does not send the same signal every time and thus recording the signal and playing it back is not enough to fool the alarm system.
I am sure there are ways to break the code, but sophisticated thieves will be after expensive cars not your 10 year old heap.
Here in Cape Town, it is wise not to leave anything valuable in the car, as there are plenty of people around willing to smash the window to get in (no fancy key hacking needed).
I have twice had my little triangular back windows smashed - even thought the car was empty. The annoying thing is that both times, the first attempt merely cracked the window, so they went round the other side and smashed that one too. Luckily the insurance covered the cost.
In the street where I live there is fresh broken glass on the ground every couple of weeks or so.
The serious car thieves solve the problem by obtaining the key by hijacking the car whilst the driver is present (with key).
Originally posted by twhiteheadNot my car they can.
I bet that if a thief could replicate your keys signal then he would have little trouble starting the car. The key itself works little more than a mechanical switch which is easily forced or bypassed.
The key sends a signal to the ignition. The signal that opens the doors is sent by another unit.
So with some technical skills they can enter the car with the alarm code, but not start the motor. For that they nead the original key. They don't. I've had mine since I bought the car.
But they don't need any technical skills to enter the car. Just a glass hammer. That's quicker. They've done that once already.
Originally posted by FabianFnasI used to live in Venice Beach California, and the person next door had a nice new car with a wicked loud alarm. One day, about noon(!), car thieves decided they wanted that car. They came up with a car trailer, quickly loaded the car which promptly started blaring the alarm audible for two blocks, drove the car off with the alarm blasting away and it was gone. Never recovered. So much for car alarms. I used to live in Jerusalem and there was a lot of car theft there also, so everyone had an alarm. The only problem with that was the technology for car alarms was not so great in the 1990's and at least 3 times a day within my hearing, someone's alarm would give a false positive, annoying everyone in the 'hood.
Not my car they can.
The key sends a signal to the ignition. The signal that opens the doors is sent by another unit.
So with some technical skills they can enter the car with the alarm code, but not start the motor. For that they nead the original key. They don't. I've had mine since I bought the car.
But they don't need any technical skills to enter the car. Just a glass hammer. That's quicker. They've done that once already.