1. Joined
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    29 Dec '20 11:10
    Now we know why lockdowns and masks don't help. We were told asymptomatic carriers of the SARS2 virus were contagious. It looks like that was never the case.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w
  2. Subscribersonhouse
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    29 Dec '20 13:08
    @Metal-Brain
    I'll wait till a reconstituted CDC chimes in.
    Trump eviscerated the CDC and put in his toadies, who forced the CDC scientists to back off on reccomends and after a real POTUS gets in Jan.20, those assswipes will be out in the cold and real scientists will be in charge again.

    He did the same thing to USDA and EPA and the Pentagon.

    All that corruption will be done with come Jan 21.
  3. Joined
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    29 Dec '20 13:223 edits
    @metal-brain said
    Now we know why lockdowns and masks don't help.
    Your OWN LINK says this;

    "... Following strict lockdown measures, the COVID-19 epidemic was generally under control in China..."

    and this above in YOUR OWN LINK clearly directly contradicts your implied above claim that lockdowns "don't help".

    We were told asymptomatic carriers of the SARS2 virus were contagious. It looks like that was never the case.

    According to that one OP link study, yes. But not according to all studies including this one;

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-1595_article
    "...Reported cases of infected persons who transmitted the virus to others while presymptomatic or asymptomatic have occurred within families or households (9–11,13–17), during shared meals (10,12), or during visits with hospitalized family members (9,13).
    ...
    Four reports documented the presence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA with lower Ct values in samples collected from persons in whom symptoms of COVID-19 never developed (24–27) (Table 2). Two reports described specimens with low RT-PCR Ct values among presymptomatic and asymptomatic residents of a nursing home identified as part of the same outbreak investigation (23,28). Among these reports, RT-PCR Ct values for SARS-CoV-2 RNA in asymptomatically infected persons ranged from 14 to 40 (23–27).
    ..."

    So far the various studies and evidence on this issue have been conflicting and it isn't yet possible to draw a clear evidence-based conclusion one way or the other, BUT, Unless you have a political/propaganda objective in which case this isn't how valid scientific method works, why only accept the evidence from one arbitrarily chosen study while reject evidence from all other studies that contradict it? -That's just not how good science works. Good science works by taking into account ALL of the evidence, not just some cherry-picked evidence to support a specific personal opinion.
  4. Joined
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    29 Dec '20 15:45
    @humy said
    Your OWN LINK says this;

    "... Following strict lockdown measures, the COVID-19 epidemic was generally under control in China..."

    and this above in YOUR OWN LINK clearly directly contradicts your implied above claim that lockdowns "don't help".

    [quote] We were told asymptomatic carriers of the SARS2 virus were contagious. It looks like that was never the case. [/quote ...[text shortened]... nt ALL of the evidence, not just some cherry-picked evidence to support a specific personal opinion.
    The CDC flip flops all of the time.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/stunning-reversal-cdc-says-it-published-new-guidance-risks-airborne-covid-19-error

    I said lockdowns, not strict lockdowns. I'll bet they work in the DPRK too.

    https://nypost.com/2020/12/04/north-korea-executes-man-for-covid-19-quarantine-violation/
  5. Joined
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    29 Dec '20 16:41
    @metal-brain said

    I said lockdowns, not strict lockdowns.
    So now a 'strict lockdown' isn't a 'lockdown'? Sorry, not true, and thus your assertion of "...lockdowns and masks don't help." is still indicated to be false by the evidence no matter how you look at it and you fool nobody here.
  6. Subscriberjoe shmo
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    29 Dec '20 17:062 edits
    Asymptomatic carriers were instrumental to spreading our fear/reservations...not COVID, certainly a key feature in the universal acceptance of "lockdown or die" propaganda.
  7. Subscribersonhouse
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    29 Dec '20 21:45
    @Metal-Brain
    You really need to do some research into the machinations of the CDC, Did you notice the word "Evisceration''? Trump did not like the strict rules coming out of the CDC so he fired the top tier people and put in his own.

    Under REAL leadership the CDC is THE organization that is world class.

    Now, under Trump, they FORCED scientists to flip about recommendations;

    THAT is why you see 'flip flops'.

    NO OTHER REASON. CDC is or WAS the premier heath organization on the planet.

    Now, they have to do what Trump TELLS them to do, and that is following HIS guidlines, which is, let companies do what the hell they want, don't introduce strict measures.

    THAT IS 100% ON TRUMP and nobody else.

    When Biden gets in Jan 20, all those yes men Trump installed will be history and the CDC will again be the premier organization it used to be.

    AND the EPA AND the USDA AND the civilian leaders at the Pentagon, ALL ripped apart by Trump.

    Of course to you all that is fake news but that is the unfortunate truth.
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    30 Dec '20 02:21
    @metal-brain said
    Now we know why lockdowns and masks don't help. We were told asymptomatic carriers of the SARS2 virus were contagious. It looks like that was never the case.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w
    I think it's probably true that, in this case, asymptomatic cases are less likely to spread the virus.

    But pre-symptomatic is the larger issue. With all or most viral infections, you are most infectious right before you develop symptoms. The symptoms are actually an immune response that is neutralizing the virus. A visibly sick person who goes to work is actually less likely to spread illness compared to a person who will be sick tomorrow.
  9. Joined
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    30 Dec '20 10:011 edit
    @wildgrass said
    I think it's probably true that, in this case, asymptomatic cases are less likely to spread the virus.

    But pre-symptomatic is the larger issue. With all or most viral infections, you are most infectious right before you develop symptoms. The symptoms are actually an immune response that is neutralizing the virus. A visibly sick person who goes to work is actually less likely to spread illness compared to a person who will be sick tomorrow.
    What is your source of information? Pre-symptomatic is asymptomatic. No symptoms.
  10. Joined
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    30 Dec '20 10:01
    @sonhouse said
    @Metal-Brain
    You really need to do some research into the machinations of the CDC, Did you notice the word "Evisceration''? Trump did not like the strict rules coming out of the CDC so he fired the top tier people and put in his own.

    Under REAL leadership the CDC is THE organization that is world class.

    Now, under Trump, they FORCED scientists to flip about recommenda ...[text shortened]... ripped apart by Trump.

    Of course to you all that is fake news but that is the unfortunate truth.
    What is your source of information?
  11. Joined
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    30 Dec '20 10:251 edit
    @metal-brain said
    Pre-symptomatic is asymptomatic.
    Yes, we obviously already knew.
    Presymptomatic means while it is asymptomatic but before it then becomes symptomatic.
    And just in case you haven't bothered reading any previous posts;

    https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-1595_article
    "...Reported cases of infected persons who transmitted the virus to others while presymptomatic or asymptomatic have occurred within families or households (9–11,13–17), during shared meals (10,12), or during visits with hospitalized family members (9,13).
    ...
    Four reports documented the presence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA with lower Ct values in samples collected from persons in whom symptoms of COVID-19 never developed (24–27) (Table 2). Two reports described specimens with low RT-PCR Ct values among presymptomatic and asymptomatic residents of a nursing home identified as part of the same outbreak investigation (23,28). Among these reports, RT-PCR Ct values for SARS-CoV-2 RNA in asymptomatically infected persons ranged from 14 to 40 (23–27).
    ..."
  12. Standard memberDeepThought
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    30 Dec '20 13:15
    @metal-brain said
    Now we know why lockdowns and masks don't help. We were told asymptomatic carriers of the SARS2 virus were contagious. It looks like that was never the case.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w
    The difficulty with this is that the outbreak in Wuhan was different from the outbreaks in Europe and the US due to the virus mutating after it reached Europe. This means that data regarding asymptomatic transmission from Wuhan isn't necessarily valid when looking at the strains that were circulating in Europe and America. The new mutant strain is believed to be even more transmissible and so the Chinese data may not be valid for the strains circulating in the West.

    This is from the BBC website:
    The virus that was first detected in Wuhan, China, is not the same one you will find in most corners of the world.

    The D614G mutation emerged in Europe in February and became the globally dominant form of the virus.

    Another, called A222V, spread across Europe and was linked to people's summer holidays in Spain.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55388846


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55388846
    https://nextstrain.org/groups/neherlab/ncov/S.N501?c=gt-S_501,69&f_country=United%20Kingdom&l=radial&p=grid
  13. Joined
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    30 Dec '20 15:41
    @metal-brain said
    What is your source of information? Pre-symptomatic is asymptomatic. No symptoms.
    You're talking about infection rate. There's obviously a difference in infection rate between presymptomatic and asymptomatic people. Once again, I think you've failed to read your own source material.
  14. Joined
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    31 Dec '20 13:40
    @wildgrass said
    You're talking about infection rate. There's obviously a difference in infection rate between presymptomatic and asymptomatic people. Once again, I think you've failed to read your own source material.
    The word "presymptomatic" does not appear at all in that article. Not even once.
  15. Joined
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    31 Dec '20 13:511 edit
    @deepthought said
    The difficulty with this is that the outbreak in Wuhan was different from the outbreaks in Europe and the US due to the virus mutating after it reached Europe. This means that data regarding asymptomatic transmission from Wuhan isn't necessarily valid when looking at the strains that were circulating in Europe and America. The new mutant strain is believed to be even mo ...[text shortened]... /nextstrain.org/groups/neherlab/ncov/S.N501?c=gt-S_501,69&f_country=United%20Kingdom&l=radial&p=grid
    "The D614G mutation emerged in Europe in February and became the globally dominant form of the virus."

    That is NOT the new mutant strain. You have not presented any evidence D614G is that different than the other variant in China. I am even skeptical that the new variant is more contagious as we are hearing. They can't even make up their minds if asymptomatic people are contagious enough to make much difference. The CDC has flip flopped so many times it is pathetic. How many times did the CDC change their minds about whether or not it is airborne?

    https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-07-04/coronavirus-airborne-spread
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