1. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    30 Sep '17 17:151 edit
    In the US all students attend university prep high schools. All students take classes which are supposed to prepare students for college.

    Is this true for your country?

    With the need for so many relatively high level of math teachers, is there any wonder how so many bad math teachers we have in the US?

    I witnesses one 8th grade math teacher teach his students that the ratio for volume of cylinder to cone with same height and radius is two to one. I asked him why he believed this is true and he said, "because a cylinder has two circles and a cone has one."

    He also told his students that there is no way to know which sides are corresponding if triangle abc is similar to triangle rst.

    Why is he teaching math? Because the US tries to teach so many kids.
  2. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    30 Sep '17 21:26
    High school students range from 15 to 18. In many states education is compulsory until age 18, although 16 is compulsory in others. Even so, it is expected for kids to stay in school until 18.
  3. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    01 Oct '17 21:23
    Here's a paper about why Chinese students learn more than American students about mathematics:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263929098_Demystifying_the_math_myth_Analyzing_the_contributing_factors_for_the_achievement_gap_between_Chinese_and_US_students

    "Demystifying the math myth: Analyzing the contributing factors for the achievement gap
    between Chinese and U.S. students"
    by Zhang Guili and Miguel Padilla

    This paper is published in the anthology _The Best Writing on Mathematics 2015_.

    As I recall, the paper notes that, by the time students reach high school, the Chinese may
    be about two or even three years ahead of the Americans in mathematical achievement.
    One reason is that the Chinese are better than the Americans on average at teaching
    mathematics and have higher expectations of their students. The paper criticizes the
    American teachers for putting too much emphasis on slow mindless repetitive drills.
  4. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    01 Oct '17 21:442 edits
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Here's a paper about why Chinese students learn more than American students about mathematics:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263929098_Demystifying_the_math_myth_Analyzing_the_contributing_factors_for_the_achievement_gap_between_Chinese_and_US_students

    "Demystifying the math myth: Analyzing the contributing factors for the achievement gap ...[text shortened]... ticizes the
    American teachers for putting too much emphasis on slow mindless repetitive drills.
    Looks like China wants to provide education for all until the age of 15, but many kids can't afford school so drop out even at 9.

    In the US education is a forced requirement. If you don't go to school your parents can go to jail. Kids resent going to school.

    Looks like in China those who go to school actually want to be there. They also spend more hours in school than in yhe US.

    One other thing, it looks like China's education system does not attempt to educate kids in rural areas, just cities.
  5. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    01 Oct '17 21:572 edits
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Looks like China wants to provide education for all until the age of 15, but many kids can't afford school so drop out even at 9.
    In the US education is a forced requirement. If you don't go to school your parents can go to jail. Kids resent going to school.
    Looks like in China those who go to school actually want to be there. They also spend more hours in school than in yhe US.
    It's a betrayal of the revolution's ideals to deprive any children, however poor, of education in China.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_One_Less

    "Set in the People's Republic of China during the 1990s, the film centers on a 13-year-old
    substitute teacher, Wei Minzhi, in the Chinese countryside. Called in to substitute for a
    village teacher for one month, Wei is told not to lose any students. When one of the boys
    takes off in search of work in the big city, she goes looking for him. The film addresses
    education reform in China, the economic gap between urban and rural populations, and
    the prevalence of bureaucracy and authority figures in everyday life."
  6. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    01 Oct '17 22:08
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    It's a betrayal of the revolution's ideals to deprive any children, however poor, of education in China.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_One_Less

    "Set in the People's Republic of China during the 1990s, the film centers on a 13-year-old
    substitute teacher, Wei Minzhi, in the Chinese countryside. Called in to substitute for a
    village teacher fo ...[text shortened]... rural populations, and
    the prevalence of bureaucracy and authority figures in everyday life."
    https://projectpartner.org/poverty/chinas-education-gap-a-surprising-factor-in-rural-poverty/

    This link provides a different story.
  7. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    01 Oct '17 22:25
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/brightside.me/wonder-places/10-facts-about-chinese-education-i-learned-while-being-a-teacher-in-china-226310/amp/


    After reading this, I do not believe that low preforming students stay in school until they are 15.

    Those who do stay in school certainly learn to work.
  8. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    01 Oct '17 23:01
    Originally posted by @eladar
    https://projectpartner.org/poverty/chinas-education-gap-a-surprising-factor-in-rural-poverty/

    This link provides a different story.
    Given his abysmal 'reading comprehension', Eladar fails to understand that I am critical of China's
    government for failing to do enough to educate many children, particularly poor or rural children.
  9. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    01 Oct '17 23:12
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Given his abysmal 'reading comprehension', Eladar fails to understand that I am critical of China's
    government for failing to do enough to educate many children, particularly poor or rural children.
    Ah, ok.
  10. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    02 Oct '17 00:28
    When we judge education systems do we take into consideration special ed? I suppose a distinction between special physical needs and learning disabled and low iq.
  11. Behind the scenes
    Joined
    27 Jun '16
    Moves
    1310
    06 Oct '17 08:01
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Given his abysmal 'reading comprehension', Eladar fails to understand that I am critical of China's
    government for failing to do enough to educate many children, particularly poor or rural children.
    It seems everyone here (even those with law degrees) fall far short of the reading standards set by the all knowing Duchess.
  12. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    07 Oct '17 00:321 edit
    Originally posted by @mchill
    It seems everyone here (even those with law degrees) fall far short of the reading standards set by the all knowing Duchess.
    The sneering ignorant troll Mchill shows more ignorance of the conventions of scholarly life.
    Someone with a law degree may have adequate reading comprehension of law books.
    Mchill fails to realize that's different from reading literary texts or academic history books.

    In academic circles, claiming to have a law degree is *not* accepted as any credential
    that one must be qualified to read and comprehend difficult literary or historical texts.
    A lawyer's strutting arrogance is no substitute for what's needed to grasp literary or historical context.
  13. Zugzwang
    Joined
    08 Jun '07
    Moves
    2120
    07 Oct '17 20:28
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    The sneering ignorant troll Mchill shows more ignorance of the conventions of scholarly life.
    Someone with a law degree may have adequate reading comprehension of law books.
    Mchill fails to realize that's different from reading literary texts or academic history books.

    In academic circles, claiming to have a law degree is *not* accepted as any creden ...[text shortened]... strutting arrogance is no substitute for what's needed to grasp literary or historical context.
    I would add that having a law degree certainly does not help someone to read and
    comprehend texts in mathematics or medicine, for instance.

    Like many Americans (including arrogant lawyers themselves), Mchill apparently overrates
    the intellectual caliber of lawyers and the transferability of their acquired skills to other fields.
    A lawyer may be adept at crafting a disingenuous, misleading argument to deceive a jury
    of ignorant laymen into believing one's desired conclusion. But arguments in a court of
    law are very different from arguments among scientists or, even more so, mathematicians.
    Mathematical theorems cannot be proven by polling a jury of ignorant people.

    As I recall, an American Christian lawyer wrote a book, attempting to apply legal, *not*
    scientific, standards of evidence and reasoning to the theory of evolution, and he
    concluded that the theory of evolution was wrong or, at least, clearly unproven.
    Very few, if any, biologists would agree with him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_on_Trial

    "Darwin on Trial is a 1991 book about the theory of evolution and the creation-evolution
    debate by Harvard graduate and University of California, Berkeley law professor emeritus
    Phillip E. Johnson. Because of the number of legal arguments based on science or scientific
    evidence, Johnson became interested in the presuppositions of scientific investigation
    and wrote the book with the thesis that evolution could be "tried" like a defendant in court."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_E._Johnson

    "Phillip E Johnson .. is a retired UC Berkeley law professor and author who is considered
    the father of the intelligent design movement. He is a critic of Darwinism ..."

    Would Mchill like to see the lawyer Phillip Johnson appointed as a professor of biology?
  14. Standard memberwolfgang59
    invigorated
    Dunedin
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    11 Oct '17 10:28
    Originally posted by @eladar
    In the US all students attend university prep high schools. All students take classes which are supposed to prepare students for college.

    Is this true for your country?

    With the need for so many relatively high level of math teachers, is there any wonder how so many bad math teachers we have in the US?

    I witnesses one 8th grade math teacher teach hi ...[text shortened]... similar to triangle rst.

    Why is he teaching math? Because the US tries to teach so many kids.
    If this is a debate what is your premise and why are you in this forum?
  15. Joined
    12 Jul '08
    Moves
    12091
    11 Oct '17 10:48
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    If this is a debate what is your premise and why are you in this forum?
    It is not a debate, just a discussion. Perhaps what works and doesn't work coud be discussed and false beliefs exposed.

    For instance, Singapore has a great practice for getting high scores, kick out the bottom third. Kick out large chunks of low performing kids and scores go up.
Back to Top