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  1. Subscriberjoe shmo
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    20 Jul '20 11:43
    @humy said
    I think, assuming the person or scientists who discovered or worked out its chemical formula (or whatever treatment that has that effect such as gene therapy etc. Actually, I think gene therapy is by far the most likely route) would think like me with vaguely my morality, probably yes but definitely not immediately i.e. before the technology was scaled up to be able to treat EV ...[text shortened]... nitially keep it secrete and ONLY make it public when EVERYONE who wants it can immediately have it!
    (I certainly wouldn't do that if I was young and healthy but I am old with medical complications and could without warning suddenly die any time soon of heart attack or stroke and I am scared of just that)


    So....you wish to greatly extend the time you "live" in constant fear of death? That is a pitiful existence. You must have learned nothing of any value in life.
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    20 Jul '20 11:468 edits
    @joe-shmo said

    So....you wish to greatly extend the time you "live" in constant fear of death? That is a pitiful existence. You must have learned nothing of any value in life.
    who said I am in "constant" fear of death?
    Obviously, I don't think about it all the time thus not in "constant" fear of death but like any normal person I do sometimes think of it.
    I do not deny I sometimes fear death; Fear of death is a normal human response. What of it? Fear is often good for giving appropriate survival responses like avoid corona virus and running from a charging bull etc.
    And what's wrong with wanting a much longer life span?
    Don't you also want a much longer life span?
    If not, why is that?
    I wont a longer life BECAUSE I see value in life. If I saw no value in life then I guess I wouldn't want a longer life so don't get what you are saying here.
  3. Subscriberjoe shmo
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    20 Jul '20 12:07
    @humy said
    who said I am in "constant" fear of death? Obviously, I don't think about it all the time but like any normal person I do sometimes think of it.
    And what's wrong with wanting a much longer life span?
    Don't you also want a much longer life span?
    If not, why is that?
    who said I am in "constant" fear of death?

    but I am old with medical complications and could without warning suddenly die any time soon of heart attack or stroke and I am scared of just that

    I can't fathom how else you expected the response above to be interpreted.

    "And what's wrong with wanting a much longer life span?"

    The quest for the fountain of youth is obviously nothing new. It just seems selfish and very short sighted in my opinion. There will be consequences, as there has already been for even doubling human life expectancy.

    Firstly, evolution is going to come to a grinding halt by extending our lifespans 12 fold initially. Will it ever end? How about new ideas? They will be lost to the pages of history.

    I think philosophically it is far greater to understand your place and time as part of a never ending cycle. Its the Circle of Life - not the straight line.
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    20 Jul '20 12:2016 edits
    @joe-shmo said
    who said I am in "constant" fear of death?

    but I am old with medical complications and could without warning suddenly die any time soon of heart attack or stroke and I am scared of just that

    I can't fathom how else you expected the response above to be interpreted.
    Do you equate the words "I am scared of just that" with "I am scared of just that all the time as in every minute of my waking life"? As I just said, I don't think about it all the time (else that would be just abnormal) but, just like all normal people, I think of it some of the time.
    "And what's wrong with wanting a much longer life span?"

    The quest for the fountain of youth is obviously nothing new. It just seems selfish and very short sighted in my opinion.
    Then your opinion can sometimes be wrong depending on context. Why cannot one (like myself) wish it for everybody as opposed to just themselves? Is that also selfish?

    Firstly, evolution is going to come to a grinding halt by extending our lifespans 12 fold initially.
    Why should we care whether an arbitrary natural process ends that we no longer need?
    We will no longer need the brutality of Darwinian natural selection along with all the pain death and fear that brings.
    Will it ever end? How about new ideas?
    why would people stop having new ideas just because they live longer? Wouldn't people who live longer logically have more time to come up with yet more new ideas? A dead person never comes up with new ideas so death is a potentially big show stopper to that.
    I am old and I am STILL coming up with new ideas and will continue to want to do so to my dying breath and see no reason or motive to stop doing so even if I live forever. I have no idea why living for ever (or just longer) would put a complete stop to new ideas or would necessarily significantly reduce the instances of new ideas.
  5. Subscriberjoe shmo
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    20 Jul '20 13:314 edits
    @humy said
    Do you equate the words "I am scared of just that" with "I am scared of just that all the time as in every minute of my waking life"? As I just said, I don't think about it all the time (else that would be just abnormal) but, just like all normal people, I think of it some of the time.
    [quote]"And what's wrong with wanting a much longer life span?"

    The quest for the fountai ...[text shortened]... t a complete stop to new ideas or would necessarily significantly reduce the instances of new ideas.
    Why cannot one (like myself) wish it for everybody as opposed to just themselves? Is that also selfish?


    It is a selfish pursuit in terms of the growth of the human race.

    Why should we care whether an arbitrary natural process ends that we no longer need?


    I don't even know how to respond to these insane delusions of grandeur, but with what I have already have responded. In my estimation you already missed the important things in life. Perhaps you do need another 1000 years or so...

    One thing that seems to be consistent is stupid humans perpetually overestimating their ability to understand nature and its processes which are meant to play out over eons. We are nowhere near bypassing nature...you just believe we are with absurd naivete.

    why would people stop having new ideas just because they live longer? Wouldn't people who live longer logically have more time to come up with yet more new ideas? A dead person never comes up with new ideas so death is a potentially big show stopper to that. I am old and I am STILL coming up with new ideas and will continue to want to do so to my dying breath and see no reason or motive to stop doing so even if I live forever. I have no idea why living for ever (or just longer) would put a complete stop to new ideas or would necessarily significantly reduce the instances of new ideas.


    https://www.verywellmind.com/fluid-intelligence-vs-crystallized-intelligence-2795004
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    20 Jul '20 15:473 edits
    @joe-shmo said
    Why cannot one (like myself) wish it for everybody as opposed to just themselves? Is that also selfish?


    It is a selfish pursuit in terms of the growth of the human race.

    Why should we care whether an arbitrary natural process ends that we no longer need?


    I don't even know how to respond to these insane delusions of grandeur, but with wh ...[text shortened]... eas.[/quote]

    https://www.verywellmind.com/fluid-intelligence-vs-crystallized-intelligence-2795004
    It is a selfish pursuit in terms of the growth of the human race.
    Well, given I am not wanting the human population grow in particular and making people live longer doesn't necessarily mean significant population increase as that also depends on birth rate, I guess I'm not selfish.
    But I don't see why it would be selfish anyway as I don't see any special advantage greater population growth has for me.

    One thing that seems to be consistent is stupid humans perpetually overestimating their ability to understand nature and its processes which are meant to play out over eons. We are nowhere near bypassing nature...you just believe we are with absurd naivete.
    Are you saying even with massively advanced science and technology and our current advanced society that cures the sick and takes cure of the disabled that we still need to keep evolving via brutal natural selection and, if so, why do we need to do that?
    https://www.verywellmind.com/fluid-intelligence-vs-crystallized-intelligence-2795004

    I just looked at that link and cannot see anything directly relevant to what I just said because that link doesn't say older people cannot come up with new ideas or even that they are necessarily less able to but, even if it was always true for natural humans that as they get old they lose ability to come up with new ideas, I assume a hypothetical reversal of the aging process would not only effect the body but the brain and therefore the mind thus making older people tend to think more like younger people. I don't see any issue here. I do admit I see a small very long-term (but not short-term) issue of population growth control here but that's a different matter and one that can be readily dealt with by careful thinking and long-term policies. One thing that would really help with that is that make any such anti-aging treatment come part of a package that includes making you infertile (but still not impotent); That measure should definitely help to render that issue a trivial one easily dealt with.
  7. Subscribervenda
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    20 Jul '20 18:25
    @humy said
    How many times do you hear about life saving treatments being stolen by thieves?
    What proportion of life saving treatments are stolen by thieves each year? 0.1% ? Much less?
    What you suggest would happen certainly isn't usually a big part of the real world.
    + the thief would probably need to know inside information such as where the material is stored and exactly how to use i ...[text shortened]... sion of stolen goods for no reason because they could have just taken it perfectly legally for free!
    Fair point, if you can ever get to the position where you have enough material to distribute it all for free.
    Up to that point you are vulnerable.
    Life saving treatments not stolen?
    The illegal drugs trade is worth billions.
    If something has a value someone , somwhere will find a way to steal it.
    As for security, as soon as more than 1 person knows passwords, combinations or whatever ,again, you are vulnerable.
    I suppose you could devise some elaborate scheme where different people have parts of the codes in case you died but that means involving even more people who may not be as idealistic as yourself and willing to sell information.
  8. Subscribervenda
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    20 Jul '20 19:30
    When I say the illegal drugs trade I'm talking pharmaseuticals , not heroine etc
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    10 Aug '20 21:15
    @venda
    Well I for one want to live longer just to see what happens next, like can we survive going to Mars. Can we survive at all? Will climate change cause billions to die? you know, minor issues like that.
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