1. Account suspended
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    23 Jun '08 20:205 edits
    Another site I thought had level-headed people on are arguing about the late Stan Meyers and his laughably simple device that he claimed cracked water into Hydrogen and Oxygen, allowing one to run their gasoline engines on tap water I'm stunned at how many conspiracy buffs are claiming the thing was real and that he was killed by big oil, the government, auto manufacturers, etc.

    Here's a news reel with Meyers demonstrating his device, a magic piece of rubber hose, haha.


    http://youtube.com/watch?v=QH32STcxveo&feature=related

    The patent and detailed plans for this thing are available all over the internet. It didn't work then and it doesn't work now. Does anybody here think this guy was not a fraud?

    If they found a way to run our cars on water, we'd be paying through the nose for that too.
  2. Standard memberPBE6
    Bananarama
    False berry
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    23 Jun '08 21:12
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    Another site I thought had level-headed people on are arguing about the late Stan Meyers and his laughably simple device that he claimed cracked water into Hydrogen and Oxygen, allowing one to run their gasoline engines on tap water I'm stunned at how many conspiracy buffs are claiming the thing was real and that he was killed by big oil, the governmen ...[text shortened]... If they found a way to run our cars on water, we'd be paying through the nose for that too.
    I can't watch the video because I'm at work, but you need a little bit more than a simple rubber hose to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. I worked at an engineering company during university that did work on hydrogen fuel cells (devices that generate power by combining hydrogen and oxygen into water in a specific way) and electrolyzers (devices that separate water into hydrogen and oxygen, consuming power in the process), but the fuel cell is the one that runs cars, not the electrolyzer.
  3. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
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    23 Jun '08 21:40
    Originally posted by PBE6
    I can't watch the video because I'm at work, but you need a little bit more than a simple rubber hose to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. I worked at an engineering company during university that did work on hydrogen fuel cells (devices that generate power by combining hydrogen and oxygen into water in a specific way) and electrolyzers (devices that se ...[text shortened]... ming power in the process), but the fuel cell is the one that runs cars, not the electrolyzer.
    What is the minimum amount of energy to split say, a gram of water into its H2 and O2 components?
    That would seem to me to be proof of this nutter's scheme. If you had 100% conversion of H20 into H2 and O2 and then back to H20, how much energy is lost in the conversion, and I guess it goes directly into heat, right?
  4. Account suspended
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    23 Jun '08 22:03
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What is the minimum amount of energy to split say, a gram of water into its H2 and O2 components?
    That would seem to me to be proof of this nutter's scheme. If you had 100% conversion of H20 into H2 and O2 and then back to H20, how much energy is lost in the conversion, and I guess it goes directly into heat, right?
    What makes the scam so obvious is that he hooks up a short piece of hose with a tiny box attached and claims that it is INSTANTANEOUSLY cracking water into Hydrogen/Oxygen as it flows through it to the engine.
  5. Cape Town
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    24 Jun '08 06:52
    Originally posted by Sam The Sham
    Another site I thought had level-headed people on are arguing about the late Stan Meyers and his laughably simple device that he claimed cracked water into Hydrogen and Oxygen, allowing one to run their gasoline engines on tap water I'm stunned at how many conspiracy buffs are claiming the thing was real and that he was killed by big oil, the government, auto manufacturers, etc.
    Well its quite obvious that if they thought it was genuine they would have stolen the machine after killing him and would now be quietly using it to make cheap hydrogen. Maybe that's why there is a sudden push towards the new 'hydrogen economy'.

    No I don't believe he had a genuine device. For a start, it would absorb energy and would have wonderful applications in cooling as well as hydrogen creation. Also he would probably have been trying to sell it to power stations not to car users.
  6. Account suspended
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    24 Jun '08 17:161 edit
    OK this is funny, some Japanese version of Stan Meyers has just invented a car that runs on water and is looking for investors. (No surprise there)
    He claims you just pour in a quart of water and the car's huge electric GENERATOR will break the water into hydrogen/oxygen gas. What none of the news people thought to ask was WHAT's powering the generator? Why, gasoline, of course. Hahahahahahahaha.

    Actually, it's probably a complete fake, since the power required is enormous to do what he claims is happening.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jivb7lupDNU
  7. Standard memberPBE6
    Bananarama
    False berry
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    25 Jun '08 19:25
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What is the minimum amount of energy to split say, a gram of water into its H2 and O2 components?
    That would seem to me to be proof of this nutter's scheme. If you had 100% conversion of H20 into H2 and O2 and then back to H20, how much energy is lost in the conversion, and I guess it goes directly into heat, right?
    The minimum energy input required can be calculated using the standard Gibbs free energy values of formation (dGf) for the reactants and products.

    For 2 H2O(liq) --> 2 H2(g) + O2(g) at standard temperature and pressure (STP), we have:

    dGf H20(liq) = -56.69 cal/mol
    dGf H2(g) = 0 cal/mol
    dGf O2(g) = 0 cal/mol

    The dGf values for the gases are 0 cal/mol at STP because they are already in their standard states. Now, the molecular mass of water is 18.02 g/mol, so 1.00 g of H2O(liq) is (1.00 g /18.02 g/mol) = 5.549E-2 mol. Since the equation has 2 mols of H2O(liq), we need to multiply by (5.549E-2 / 2) = 2.775E-2 to normalize it. So our calculation becomes:

    dG = dGf(products) - dGf(reactants)
    = 0 - 2.775E-2 mol * (-56.69 cal/mol)
    = 1.57 cal

    So you need at least 1.57 cal to split 1.00 g of water into hydrogen and oxygen at STP. As indicated by the positive sign, this process in non-spontaneous and requires energy input. Not a good way to run your car. 😕

    The amount of energy it actually takes to convert the water into its constituent gases and back again is path dependent.
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