The science of face masks

@metal-brain said
Are you referring to the hypothetical mid-March remarks by the Surgeon General?

Yes, but it was not hypothetical. He gave specific reasons masks may do more harm than good. Do you think he made it up?

It was in March. You say that statement (clearly based on assumptions from prior non-airborne outbreaks) proves that masks are harmful?

All those months ago when he said we're learning more every day, those studies have been published.

@wildgrass said
It was in March. You say that statement (clearly based on assumptions from prior non-airborne outbreaks) proves that masks are harmful?

All those months ago when he said we're learning more every day, those studies have been published.

Are you claiming his statements back then have been proven wrong?

"assumptions from prior non-airborne outbreaks"

That is not true. What is your source of information?

@metal-brain said
Are you claiming his statements back then have been proven wrong?

"assumptions from prior non-airborne outbreaks"

That is not true. What is your source of information?

What were his statements again? We have data now showing masks work to control the spread. If he said they don't work, what data was he using?

@wildgrass said
What were his statements again? We have data now showing masks work to control the spread. If he said they don't work, what data was he using?

https://www.foxnews.com/media/surgeon-general-explains-masks-public-coronavirus

You need to show the reasons he gave have been proven wrong since then. Can you do that?

@metal-brain said
https://www.foxnews.com/media/surgeon-general-explains-masks-public-coronavirus

You need to show the reasons he gave have been proven wrong since then. Can you do that?

what data was he using? He may not have been completely incorrect about face touching or false sense of security. But whatever hypothetical downsides he describes were outweighed by the benefits. This is borne out by many recent population studies.

@wildgrass said
what data was he using? He may not have been completely incorrect about face touching or false sense of security. But whatever hypothetical downsides he describes were outweighed by the benefits. This is borne out by many recent population studies.

You would have to ask him, but he is saying why the CDC and WHO didn't recommend them so you might want to find out from those sources if you can. My point is he was not making it up.

"But whatever hypothetical downsides he describes were outweighed by the benefits. This is borne out by many recent population studies."

That is simply not true and you have not shown that. I don't want another claim without proof. Enough people are doing that. This is the science forum. show me the proof.

@metal-brain said
You would have to ask him, but he is saying why the CDC and WHO didn't recommend them so you might want to find out from those sources if you can. My point is he was not making it up.

"But whatever hypothetical downsides he describes were outweighed by the benefits. This is borne out by many recent population studies."

That is simply not true and you have not shown ...[text shortened]... her claim without proof. Enough people are doing that. This is the science forum. show me the proof.

Huh? You keep saying masks do more harm than good, you post this link to an interview in March, but you don't know what he said, you dont know the context or the rationale, and you don't know what data backs whatever premise you're asserting? What is that? Why would you do that?

@wildgrass said
Huh? You keep saying masks do more harm than good, you post this link to an interview in March, but you don't know what he said, you dont know the context or the rationale, and you don't know what data backs whatever premise you're asserting? What is that? Why would you do that?

I gave you my source of information. He is the Surgeon General. His source is the WHO and CDC.

If you are unable to prove him wrong just admit it. You clearly are trying to avoid just that. You don't have any proof and you are attempting to move the goal post be falsely claiming I said they do more harm than good. I quoted the SG. That is all.

He is an expert. He made specific statements that you are unable to prove wrong. That is your problem, not mine.

@Metal-Brain
you don't know what he said...

@wildgrass said
@Metal-Brain
you don't know what he said...

Of course I do. The article quoted him and you read it if you read the article. Did you read the article?

Do countries that wear masks less have an increased infection or death rate on average? NO!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1114375/wearing-a-face-mask-outside-in-european-countries/

@metal-brain said
Do countries that wear masks less have an increased infection or death rate on average? NO!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1114375/wearing-a-face-mask-outside-in-european-countries/

You just scored an own goal!
The data table shown in your OWN link indicates the exact OPPOSITE of your above claim.
According to that data table, in Sweden they wear face masks the LEAST often out of all the countries listed there that includes Britain & Germany & Spain and the reason why that indicates the exact opposite of your claim is because Sweden has had the HIGHEST covid cases and deaths out of those countries!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9025989/Swedens-Covid-infection-rate-soars-Britain-Germany-Spain.html
"...Lockdown finally looms for Sweden as it suffers more than DOUBLE the number of Covid cases per capita than Britain, Germany or Spain..."

So, if anything, your own link indicates masks REDUCES covid spread and covid deaths.

Did you read the article?

Before you can validly demand that he reads an article, one minimum requirement would be you should read all the articles in your OWN links.

@humy said
You just scored an own goal!
The data table shown in your OWN link indicates the exact OPPOSITE of your above claim.
According to that data table, in Sweden they wear face masks the LEAST often out of all the countries listed there that includes Britain & Germany & Spain and the reason why that indicates the exact opposite of your claim is because Sweden has had the HIGHEST co ...[text shortened]... ads an article, one minimum requirement would be you should read all the articles in your OWN links.

RUBBISH!

Sweden has a policy of letting people get infected to hasten herd immunity. Despite that, Belgium and the UK have a worse problem.

If you were right the Netherlands would be in the top 10 and since they are next to Belgium (# 1), being 15th is actually quite a remarkable vindication of Dutch policy of not mandating face masks.

You have it completely backwards. I proved you wrong.

@metal-brain said
RUBBISH!

Belgium and the UK have a worse problem.

At least some of the data indicates otherwise.
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
-in the data table in that link it shows;

country | case notification rate per 100 000 inhabitants
United_Kingdom | 720.70
Sweden | 814.99

@humy said
The data shows otherwise.

Prove it.

You live in the country with the 2nd highest rate of infections and deaths, right? Begium is #1 and they are right next to the Netherlands who did not make masks mandatory until recently.

That is all the data you need.