@metal-brain saidIt was in March. You say that statement (clearly based on assumptions from prior non-airborne outbreaks) proves that masks are harmful?
Are you referring to the hypothetical mid-March remarks by the Surgeon General?
Yes, but it was not hypothetical. He gave specific reasons masks may do more harm than good. Do you think he made it up?
All those months ago when he said we're learning more every day, those studies have been published.
@wildgrass saidAre you claiming his statements back then have been proven wrong?
It was in March. You say that statement (clearly based on assumptions from prior non-airborne outbreaks) proves that masks are harmful?
All those months ago when he said we're learning more every day, those studies have been published.
"assumptions from prior non-airborne outbreaks"
That is not true. What is your source of information?
@metal-brain saidWhat were his statements again? We have data now showing masks work to control the spread. If he said they don't work, what data was he using?
Are you claiming his statements back then have been proven wrong?
"assumptions from prior non-airborne outbreaks"
That is not true. What is your source of information?
@wildgrass saidhttps://www.foxnews.com/media/surgeon-general-explains-masks-public-coronavirus
What were his statements again? We have data now showing masks work to control the spread. If he said they don't work, what data was he using?
You need to show the reasons he gave have been proven wrong since then. Can you do that?
@metal-brain saidwhat data was he using? He may not have been completely incorrect about face touching or false sense of security. But whatever hypothetical downsides he describes were outweighed by the benefits. This is borne out by many recent population studies.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/surgeon-general-explains-masks-public-coronavirus
You need to show the reasons he gave have been proven wrong since then. Can you do that?
@wildgrass saidYou would have to ask him, but he is saying why the CDC and WHO didn't recommend them so you might want to find out from those sources if you can. My point is he was not making it up.
what data was he using? He may not have been completely incorrect about face touching or false sense of security. But whatever hypothetical downsides he describes were outweighed by the benefits. This is borne out by many recent population studies.
"But whatever hypothetical downsides he describes were outweighed by the benefits. This is borne out by many recent population studies."
That is simply not true and you have not shown that. I don't want another claim without proof. Enough people are doing that. This is the science forum. show me the proof.
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@metal-brain saidHuh? You keep saying masks do more harm than good, you post this link to an interview in March, but you don't know what he said, you dont know the context or the rationale, and you don't know what data backs whatever premise you're asserting? What is that? Why would you do that?
You would have to ask him, but he is saying why the CDC and WHO didn't recommend them so you might want to find out from those sources if you can. My point is he was not making it up.
"But whatever hypothetical downsides he describes were outweighed by the benefits. This is borne out by many recent population studies."
That is simply not true and you have not shown ...[text shortened]... her claim without proof. Enough people are doing that. This is the science forum. show me the proof.
@wildgrass saidI gave you my source of information. He is the Surgeon General. His source is the WHO and CDC.
Huh? You keep saying masks do more harm than good, you post this link to an interview in March, but you don't know what he said, you dont know the context or the rationale, and you don't know what data backs whatever premise you're asserting? What is that? Why would you do that?
If you are unable to prove him wrong just admit it. You clearly are trying to avoid just that. You don't have any proof and you are attempting to move the goal post be falsely claiming I said they do more harm than good. I quoted the SG. That is all.
He is an expert. He made specific statements that you are unable to prove wrong. That is your problem, not mine.
@wildgrass saidOf course I do. The article quoted him and you read it if you read the article. Did you read the article?
@Metal-Brain
you don't know what he said...
@metal-brain saidYou just scored an own goal!
Do countries that wear masks less have an increased infection or death rate on average? NO!
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1114375/wearing-a-face-mask-outside-in-european-countries/
The data table shown in your OWN link indicates the exact OPPOSITE of your above claim.
According to that data table, in Sweden they wear face masks the LEAST often out of all the countries listed there that includes Britain & Germany & Spain and the reason why that indicates the exact opposite of your claim is because Sweden has had the HIGHEST covid cases and deaths out of those countries!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9025989/Swedens-Covid-infection-rate-soars-Britain-Germany-Spain.html
"...Lockdown finally looms for Sweden as it suffers more than DOUBLE the number of Covid cases per capita than Britain, Germany or Spain..."
So, if anything, your own link indicates masks REDUCES covid spread and covid deaths.
Did you read the article?Before you can validly demand that he reads an article, one minimum requirement would be you should read all the articles in your OWN links.
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@humy saidRUBBISH!
You just scored an own goal!
The data table shown in your OWN link indicates the exact OPPOSITE of your above claim.
According to that data table, in Sweden they wear face masks the LEAST often out of all the countries listed there that includes Britain & Germany & Spain and the reason why that indicates the exact opposite of your claim is because Sweden has had the HIGHEST co ...[text shortened]... ads an article, one minimum requirement would be you should read all the articles in your OWN links.
Sweden has a policy of letting people get infected to hasten herd immunity. Despite that, Belgium and the UK have a worse problem.
If you were right the Netherlands would be in the top 10 and since they are next to Belgium (# 1), being 15th is actually quite a remarkable vindication of Dutch policy of not mandating face masks.
You have it completely backwards. I proved you wrong.
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@metal-brain saidAt least some of the data indicates otherwise.
RUBBISH!
Belgium and the UK have a worse problem.
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea
-in the data table in that link it shows;
country | case notification rate per 100 000 inhabitants
United_Kingdom | 720.70
Sweden | 814.99