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  1. Standard member Westside Mobster
    The King of Detroit
    24 Feb '09 19:01 / 1 edit
    Yes or no.
  2. 24 Feb '09 19:06
    It depends on the context.
  3. Standard member Westside Mobster
    The King of Detroit
    24 Feb '09 19:24
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    It depends on the context.
    OK. Not mathematically, but as far as matter/energy is concerned.
  4. 24 Feb '09 21:06
    If what is meant by the “parts” INCLUDES all the various interactions between the parts then I would say logically it is NEVER true that “The Whole is greater than the sum of its parts”.

    However, you could cheat by semantics by contriving a meaning of a word “whole” in some particular context in such a way that it includes something that is both not any of the “parts” nor any of the interactions between the parts -but personally I think that would just be a cheep trick of semantics.
  5. Standard member Westside Mobster
    The King of Detroit
    24 Feb '09 23:14
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    If what is meant by the “parts” INCLUDES all the various interactions between the parts then I would say logically it is NEVER true that “The Whole is greater than the sum of its parts”.

    However, you could cheat by semantics by contriving a meaning of a word “whole” in some particular context in such a way that it includes something that is both n ...[text shortened]... actions between the parts -but personally I think that would just be a cheep trick of semantics.
    I have a pizza pie.

    It is 360 degrees in circumference.

    When I cut it in half is it still whole?
  6. Standard member PBE6
    Bananarama
    25 Feb '09 00:43
    Originally posted by Westside Mobster
    I have a pizza pie.

    It is 360 degrees in circumference.

    When I cut it in half is it still whole?
    If you have 21 odds and ends on a table, and 20 of them fall on the ground, what do you have left - an odd or an end?
  7. Standard member Westside Mobster
    The King of Detroit
    25 Feb '09 01:17
    Originally posted by PBE6
    If you have 21 odds and ends on a table, and 20 of them fall on the ground, what do you have left - an odd or an end?
    1 WHOLE ODD or 1 WHOLE END!!!
  8. Subscriber coquette
    Already mated
    25 Feb '09 01:43
    A bucket of parts is not an automobile, or a computer, or a person. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It's called synergy, potentiation, and being.
  9. Standard member Westside Mobster
    The King of Detroit
    25 Feb '09 02:13
    Originally posted by coquette
    A bucket of parts is not an automobile, or a computer, or a person. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It's called synergy, potentiation, and being.
    I agree. But what about material matter? If I ripped my T-shirt in half, and sew it back together, would it be whole again???

    If I use a bucket of parts to build an automobile would it be whole?

    If I use a bucket of parts to build a computer would it be whole?
  10. 25 Feb '09 06:27
    Originally posted by coquette
    A bucket of parts is not an automobile, or a computer, or a person. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. It's called synergy, potentiation, and being.
    I guess that singly the parts to not carry location information but when put together their relationships result in new information.
    I would disagree though that an automobile is greater than a bucket containing all its parts. Its just different. It may be more useful to us but it is not necessarily 'greater'.
  11. 25 Feb '09 09:15
    Originally posted by Westside Mobster
    The Whole is greater than the sum of its parts?
    Yes or no.
    Blend one gallon of sugar sirup with one gallon of motor oil and I would think the ingredients apart are greater than the two mixed.

    Conclusion: Sometimes yes, but sometimes no. It depends of what we're talking about.
  12. 25 Feb '09 09:29
    Originally posted by Westside Mobster
    OK. Not mathematically, but as far as matter/energy is concerned.
    Once again, it depends on the context.
  13. Standard member patauro
    Patricia
    25 Feb '09 10:55 / 2 edits
    Many systems do seem to be "emergent", in that the end or intervening result(s) are not reducable to the individual parts. "Greater" may not be the most exact term here. One example would be to say "look at yourself in the mirror".
    Some think the universe as a whole is such a system that is more than the sum of its parts
  14. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    25 Feb '09 19:33
    According to the particle data-group the mass of the up quark is between 1.5 and 3.3 MeV/c² the mass of the down quark is 2.5 to 5.0 MeV/c². From this you´d expect the mass of a proton to be, at most, 11.6 MeV/c². The actual mass is 938 MeV/c². So here is a clear example of the whole being a couple of orders of magnitude larger than the sum of the parts.
  15. 25 Feb '09 20:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Westside Mobster
    I have a pizza pie.

    It is 360 degrees in circumference.

    When I cut it in half is it still whole?
    I would say that the chemical bonds that hold the molecules of pizza pie together (mainly weak hydrogen bonds between the organic molecules that make them stick together in this case) are PART of the pizza pie. Thus when you cut it in half you are taking away some of the parts because you have to cut and thus extinguish some of those chemical bonds that hold the molecules of pizza pie together.