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Science Forum

  1. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    09 Mar '09 18:36
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090309104434.htm

    I wonder what the ID crowd will think of this one? Science, 1, Creationists, 0.
  2. 09 Mar '09 19:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090309104434.htm

    I wonder what the ID crowd will think of this one? Science, 1, Creationists, 0.
    The IDers are not interested. The findings counterproof any ID claim, so it must be wrong, they'll say.
  3. 09 Mar '09 19:43 / 1 edit
    Reading this link has just given me an interesting thought:
    -perhaps the first ‘life’ was not exactly a single cell but rather a free-floating self-replicating ribosome? But then later became encapsulated in a cell-like structure and then lost its ability to self replicate?
    After all, a ribosome has:
    1, the ability to synthesise protein
    2, genetic material in the form of RNA.
  4. Standard member zozozozo
    Thread Killing Chimp
    09 Mar '09 20:09
    Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
    Reading this link has just given me an interesting thought:
    -perhaps the first ‘life’ was not exactly a single cell but rather a free-floating self-replicating ribosome? But then later became encapsulated in a cell-like structure and then lost its ability to self replicate?
    After all, a ribosome has:
    1, the ability to synthesise protein
    2, genetic material in the form of RNA.
    i believe there first was a bunch of RNA, floathing around, somehow it got able to selfreplicate. After that some of this RNA was enclosed in a lipid bilayer.


    interesting article sonhouse, what is ID crowd?
  5. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    10 Mar '09 01:56
    Originally posted by zozozozo
    i believe there first was a bunch of RNA, floathing around, somehow it got able to selfreplicate. After that some of this RNA was enclosed in a lipid bilayer.


    interesting article sonhouse, what is ID crowd?
    ID'ers are a right wing ultra-religious group in the US. They are Creationists, who believe in the biblical version of creation in Genesis. They want to force Creationism to be taught side by side with evolution in science classes in middle schools and high schools and have taken that fight to court and lost every time, then they changed their name to Intelligent Designers (ID) to attempt to hide the fact they are creationists pushing a religious agenda. They lost those ID court battles also and now are using a new technique a bit harder to win in court: teaching ID alongside evolution based not on ID but freedom of press issues, alternative educational opportunities or some such rot. It is all designed to kill evolution as a science. They have no issue with most of the other sciences but when it comes to evolution they go ape
  6. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    10 Mar '09 03:23
    All good stuff, but bear in mind you are using an example of intelligent design to refute intelligent design
  7. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    10 Mar '09 04:39
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    All good stuff, but bear in mind you are using an example of intelligent design to refute intelligent design
    The thought had occurred to me! So making artificial life proves ID. I suppose that will be their line, then. But first, won't they have to prove we are intelligent? That might be a sticking point
  8. 10 Mar '09 07:58
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    The thought had occurred to me! So making artificial life proves ID. I suppose that will be their line, then. But first, won't they have to prove we are intelligent? That might be a sticking point
    The idea here is to show that lifeless molecules actually can reproduce themself spontanuously with no aid from any intelligent being. How it could work at the very beginning of life.

    Next step is to show that these molecules can come into being in the beginning of life era on Earth. Like amino acids in a test tube in the famous experiment.
  9. Standard member zozozozo
    Thread Killing Chimp
    10 Mar '09 08:28
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    ID'ers are a right wing ultra-religious group in the US. They are Creationists, who believe in the biblical version of creation in Genesis. They want to force Creationism to be taught side by side with evolution in science classes in middle schools and high schools and have taken that fight to court and lost every time, then they changed their name to Intel ...[text shortened]... They have no issue with most of the other sciences but when it comes to evolution they go ape
    Ok i see, thx
    "but when it comes to evolution they go ape"
    haha i love it
  10. Standard member zozozozo
    Thread Killing Chimp
    10 Mar '09 08:32
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    The thought had occurred to me! So making artificial life proves ID. I suppose that will be their line, then. But first, won't they have to prove we are intelligent? That might be a sticking point
    but they made ribosomes from pieces of ribosome right?
    It would be alot harder to Intelligent-Design-Create these pieces of molecules.
    (I assume the ID ppl think God created the atoms and molecules (then perhaps glued them together)).
  11. 10 Mar '09 08:37
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090309104434.htm

    I wonder what the ID crowd will think of this one? Science, 1, Creationists, 0.
    Creating artificial life should not affect the ID argument in any way (for or against). What would mess them up is showing that life can arise from non-life without too much intervention.

    Creating artificial life might upset some people who believe that life contains a hidden 'magic spark' or 'ghost in the machine' that only God can put there.

    But I doubt that there are many people who would deny that it is theoretically possible to create a living cell by copying every single part of a known living cell. Such a feat does not in any way disprove or even go against the typical arguments of creationist or IDers
  12. Standard member zozozozo
    Thread Killing Chimp
    10 Mar '09 08:40
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    The idea here is to show that lifeless molecules actually can reproduce themself spontanuously with no aid from any intelligent being. How it could work at the very beginning of life.
    Yes. I believe all the components were together and luckily fit and started replicating somehow. Perhaps in the big soup from Darwin but there are many theorys of where this could have taken place.
    - deep sea vents
    - ice (sea ice i think)
    - mars (on a meteorite to earth)
    We are not sure, so hooray for all the science projects on this subject
  13. Standard member KellyJay
    Walk your Faith
    10 Mar '09 09:29
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090309104434.htm

    I wonder what the ID crowd will think of this one? Science, 1, Creationists, 0.
    Why would this bother the ID crowd?
    Kelly
  14. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    10 Mar '09 09:32
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Why would this bother the ID crowd?
    Kelly
    I would think that proof that a non-god can create life would set them off. According to them, only God can create life. I would imagine if it actually came about, they would argue what we created is not really life.
  15. 10 Mar '09 10:51
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    All good stuff, but bear in mind you are using an example of intelligent design to refute intelligent design
    But what ID’s normally mean by “intelligent design” in the context of life is “God’s design” and that means NOT “human design” for they claim that a “God” MUST have designed life.
    Therefore, a demonstration that an intelligent designer that is NOT a “god” can produce life is evidence against their claim.