What is race?

Originally posted by Thequ1ck
I mean in a biological sense. Science is a language to describe observations
so I'm looking for a scientific word that describes this phenomenon.

The word is "race". If you're confused, look at some pictures of Norwegians, then look at some Nigerians. See the difference? That's race.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
"Races" were never entirely separate from one another. It's more like there are several variations of each part for a car, and any variation of a part can link up with any variation for the other part giving us a near infinite number of types of cars. However most cars that are driven in a certain region, if they don't leave that region, will tend t ...[text shortened]... fact there are no "models" - only part types (traits, or genotypes in the analogy)

Surely the amount of information required to make substantial changes in phenotype
should be taken into account? Everybody is happy to quote that we have a 99.x%
genetic similarity to chimpanzees and how amazing that is and then go on to say
that small changes between humans is totally unimportant??!!

This is why I think it's ridiculous to have a generic version of 'race' when the mechanisms
are so complex.

Originally posted by Sam The Sham
The word is "race". If you're confused, look at some pictures of Norwegians, then look at some Nigerians. See the difference? That's race.

Totally. But I'm trying to find a biological underpinning for this very blatant differentiation
and I'm getting sent pillar to post.

I've had 2 threads deleted for saying there was a biological basis for race and nobody
can provide me with a concrete definition for what these blatant differences are called.

"Many contend that while racial categorizations may be marked by phenotypic or genotypic traits, the idea of race itself, and actual divisions of persons into races, are social"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings)

"Many contend", that's right. "Many contend".
I had my threads deleted because of a god-damn theory.

Originally posted by Sam The Sham
The word is "race". If you're confused, look at some pictures of Norwegians, then look at some Nigerians. See the difference? That's race.

Or you could look at some pictures of Norwegians and some pictures of Russians. Or some pictures of Germans and some pictures of Irish. Or some pictures of Nigerians and some pictures of some Zulus. Or a picture of Sam the Sham and any other human being.

Originally posted by Thequ1ck
Totally. But I'm trying to find a biological underpinning for this very blatant differentiation
and I'm getting sent pillar to post.

Evolutionary adaptations and what-not. Why do you care so much?

You could also register at http://forum.stirpes.net where you'll encounter a wealth of opinion on the subject.

Remember the venerable English expression: "Wogs begin at Calais".

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Evolutionary adaptations and what-not. Why do you care so much?

You could also register at http://forum.stirpes.net where you'll encounter a wealth of opinion on the subject.

I care for two reasons

1) I don't like being conned and disbanding a scientific definition based
on a theory is being conned

2) I believe that by minimalising race we are maximising the differences
because it means when the truth comes knocking wide eyed and slack
jawed on our doors, we will be no way prepared to deal with it.

Decent link, thnx

Originally posted by Thequ1ck

2) I believe that by minimalising race we are maximising the differences
because it means we be in no way equipped to deal with the truth when
it stares us wide eyed and slacked jawed in the face.

All science operates on theories.

What is 'the truth' you refer to?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
All science operates on theories.

What is 'the truth' you refer to?

The 'truth' that I refer to is the use of practical and easy to understand words that
describe observations. Such as the use of the word 'race'.

edit. Another 'truth' that I believe in is that there are differences between
native groups from different continents and that those differences need
to be acknowledged and dealt with in order to progress.

edit. Saying there is no difference between 2 cars because they both use
the same fuel simply doesn't wash with me.

Originally posted by Thequ1ck
The 'truth' that I refer to is the use of practical and easy to understand words that
describe observations. Such as the use of the word 'race'.

What exactly do you want to be able to say?

OK, now we're getting to it. What are these differences and how much is due to genes ('race'😉 and how much culture (social identity, history, religion, language)?

Get the feeling you're going round in circles already?

Can you apply your car analogy to people who live in estates the Thames Valley and people who live in the Gorbals? Let's assume they're all white.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
What exactly do you want to be able to say?

How does Obama represent the black community

To me he represents the marrying of different races.

Is interbreeding the only real way to truly beat racism or can we find
other ways of living together?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
What exactly do you want to be able to say?

OK, now we're getting to it. What are these differences and how much is due to genes ('race'😉 and how much culture (social identity, history, religion, language)?

Get the feeling you're going round in circles already?

Can you apply your car analogy to people who live in estates the Thames Valley and people who live in the Gorbals? Let's assume they're all white.

I'm not going around in circles. I've always accepted a biological basis
for race in humans. I'm just being told by a bunch of people peering dow n
Mathematical microscopes that they can't see it.

And when I ask, how do they know how those small changes affect the
organism or what word to use for describing the effects to the organism,
they kind of shrug and sip their tea.

Originally posted by Thequ1ck
How does Obama represent the black community

To me he represents the marrying of different races.

Is interbreeding the only real way to truly beat racism or can we find
other ways of living together?

Is there only one black community in the USA? I think there are many black communities. To talk about 'the black community' is to constitute an imaginary mass that you want people to identify with so that you can represent them: politics, a branch of advertising.

Yes, his mother and father belonged to different races.

No, interbreeding is not the only way. Having a brain and using it is the way to beat racism in yourself, if you are afflicted with it.

Originally posted by Thequ1ck
I'm not going around in circles. I've always accepted a biological basis
for race in humans. I'm just being told by a bunch of people peering dow n
Mathematical microscopes that they can't see it.

You haven't stated what specific differences you're interested in (let alone why) and why these should be accounted for by genetics rather than culture.

The changes affect skin colour, epicanthic folds, tendencies towards anaemia, red hair, and so on. Are these the differences that really interest you?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Is there only one black community in the USA? I think there are many black communities. To talk about 'the black community' is to constitute an imaginary mass that you want people to identify with so that you can represent them: politics, a branch of advertising.

Yes, his mother and father belonged to different races.

No, interbreeding is not th ...[text shortened]... ving a brain and using it is the way to beat racism in yourself, if you are afflicted with it.

That's nonsense, we're being taught to ignore the differences, how is
that using our brains?

Other truths are foreign policy, education, integration and racism. They've
all got very loud knocks.

Originally posted by Thequ1ck
That's nonsense, we're being taught to ignore the differences, how is
that using our brains?

For the last time, please be specific about what differences you intend.