Who Wants to Live Forever Anyway?

Originally posted by googlefudge
The problem is, that a robot running on electricity is only costing you pennies per hour
rather than pounds per hour for a human being.

That all depends on the human being. In China (although increasingly less so) and most third world nations, human labour is pennies per hour and is cheaper than electricity. I know that in Zambia for example, labour is often cheaper than mechanization, but it is a close call and when minimum wages are put up some people mechanise. When the cost of electricity rises, some people go back to labour.

My point was that if over mechanisation takes place you will have many people out of work who will then be willing to work for less until they are willing to work for less than pennies per hour and thus beat electricity. Unless you have social welfare I suppose - something I am suggesting is one solution to the problem.

Also as I mentioned earlier a drop in the cost of electricity would dramatically accelerate mechanization as it would change the equation.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
WHERE'S MY 4 DAY WEEKENDS YOU LYING SWINES?

France?

Or Mexico?
http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/08/investing/carlos-slim-3-day-work-week-will-happen/

Maybe its your own fault for wanting too much money (an excessive lifestyle). Come to Zambia and learn how to live on less, then move back the the US and you will only need to work one day a week!

Originally posted by twhitehead
France?

Or Mexico?
http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/08/investing/carlos-slim-3-day-work-week-will-happen/

Maybe its your own fault for wanting too much money (an excessive lifestyle). Come to Zambia and learn how to live on less, then move back the the US and you will only need to work one day a week!

I could and would happily live on half my salary, but they won't let me go part-time, despite my begging and pleading with them repeatedly. I'm firmly refusing the pressure to do extra hours though.

edit - I'm in the UK btw, not the States. I would come to Zambia but I don't like hot weather. I like the drizzly rain.

Originally posted by twhitehead
France?

Or Mexico?
http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/08/investing/carlos-slim-3-day-work-week-will-happen/

Maybe its your own fault for wanting too much money (an excessive lifestyle). Come to Zambia and learn how to live on less, then move back the the US and you will only need to work one day a week!

In the 1970's I had a buddy who was a dentist. He made a deal with a local dentist office to come in one day a week, get paid $150 a day, so 150 a week. That provided him with all the money he needed to live nicely in Venice Beach, great life, eh!

Originally posted by twhitehead
You are partially correct. It must be noted that many of the 'fears' in the past were fully justified and many people did loose their jobs to robots. This often did not destroy society because it tended to be gradual and affect one sector at a time. One could argue though that a number of revolutions in the past can be attributed to this (including commun ...[text shortened]... es. There is no good reason for them to reverse those moves so the jobs will not be coming back.

I suppose you're correct in saying that it tends to happen gradually and in certain sectors.

Within my line of work (bio molecular research) machines are certainly playing a much larger role than before, in particular with regards to plant phenotyping, emasculating flowers and certainly the rise of sequencing machines.

In my view, this has not so much resulted in less work overall, but in less "simple" (lower education) and more complex work.

As a side note, I am still relatively young, but already two years ago I made the decision of working 90% instead of 100% and starting next year I'll be at my final goal of 80%. I notice that a lot of people around me COULD work less, financially and professionally, but they don't, which I find rather fascinating.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
I suppose you're correct in saying that it tends to happen gradually and in certain sectors.

Within my line of work (bio molecular research) machines are certainly playing a much larger role than before, in particular with regards to plant phenotyping, emasculating flowers and certainly the rise of sequencing machines.

In my view, this has not s ...[text shortened]... OULD work less, financially and professionally, but they don't, which I find rather fascinating.

So you are easing into your permanent retirement by cutting worktime bit by bit?

Originally posted by Great King Rat
In my view, this has not so much resulted in less work overall, but in less "simple" (lower education) and more complex work.

So lab technicians are out of a job?
My observation with computers when they first came out was that people tended to end up taking more time getting everything perfect. So whereas previously they would type out a letter once, they would now type it with assistance of the computer and then format it all nicely etc. When doing something more complex they would take about the same time as before but the end product would be better. So rather than being time savers they were work enhancers.

Nevertheless, over the years many secretary jobs have been lost to computers.

As a side note, I am still relatively young, but already two years ago I made the decision of working 90% instead of 100% and starting next year I'll be at my final goal of 80%. I notice that a lot of people around me COULD work less, financially and professionally, but they don't, which I find rather fascinating.
I didn't so much make a decision but rather circumstances put me working from home for less than I used to earn. I have come to like it and tried to remain working from home.

I have also observed that humans in general tend to spend up to and slightly beyond their means with the belief that they will do better in future. Credit cards and other forms of credit (including mortgages) tend to play havoc with this tendency as people don't realize just how far overboard they have gone. This is one reason why inflation usually gets a free pass but deflation upsets everyone. Inflation gives the illusion of constantly getting better off.
Most people cannot handle salary cuts. If you put someone back to the same salary they were earning 5 years ago, they find they cannot live on it even though they could 5 years ago.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So you are easing into your permanent retirement by cutting worktime bit by bit?

Well, more or less. Mind you, my retirement is still a long time away, but with how things are going I'll be retiring a hell of a lot later in life than my parents did

I figured I might as well get used to getting a bit less money now, so that in a few years time I won't even notice.

I have no intention of going for less than 80% though, since that would make my job significantly harder.

But, yeah. A three day weekend is pretty great, in my opinion.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So lab technicians are out of a job?
My observation with computers when they first came out was that people tended to end up taking more time getting everything perfect. So whereas previously they would type out a letter once, they would now type it with assistance of the computer and then format it all nicely etc. When doing something more complex they ...[text shortened]... y were earning 5 years ago, they find they cannot live on it even though they could 5 years ago.

Well, there's still plenty of labwork to be done which is either too complex to be done by machines or we simply aren't highthroughput enough to afford a machine.

PCR for instance is certainly done almost entirely by robots in hospitals for instance, but we still do them manually because the materials and settings we use are too variable to be done by a robot.

In our company we have grown in terms of people (including labtechnicians, eventhough we're more and more becoming computertechnicians) but the lower educated workers have all disappeared. All of them have found jobs elsewhere though.

Personally, I'd say it would be a great idea if the 4 day workweek would become "the norm" rather than the 5 day workweek. Employers seem to like that idea far less though.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Personally, I'd say it would be a great idea if the 4 day workweek would become "the norm" rather than the 5 day workweek. Employers seem to like that idea far less though.

Probably because employees will still demand the 5 day income.
I believe it works better if the whole country agrees to it with everyone accepting an income cut. I believe Germany has done that to some degree essentially increasing the number of jobs.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12017112/Worlds-first-anti-ageing-drug-could-see-humans-live-to-120.html

Just what we needed, now everybody can have a fifty year long retirement. Not sure what sort of a pension we'll be getting though...

from my knowledge of biology, there is a comment in that link about how the drug works that doesn't make any sense to me thus making me seriously wonder about the credibility of this health claim:

"...Metformin increases the number of oxygen molecules released into a cell, which appears to boost robustness and longevity. ..."

The problem I have with this comment is that oxygen molecules aren't "released" into animal cells but rather 'defuse' into cells from outside. Only plant cells "release" oxygen molecules into cells and do so from chloroplasts via photosynthesis. Animal cells don't make oxygen so I fail to see how this drug could possibly make much difference on the level of oxygen available. So, unless I am missing something, that comment appears to be complete and utter nonsense. Please will somebody here either correct me if I am missing something here or confirm my suspicion...

Originally posted by humy
from my knowledge of biology, there is a comment in that link about how the drug works that doesn't make any sense to me thus making me seriously wonder about the credibility of this health claim:

The health claim is based on observations of roundworms and mice and not on speculations as to why it works. The sentence in question was written by a reporter not a scientist. This article:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/277679.php
seems to suggest that the drug requires oxygen in the cells and it is possible the reporter got it all wrong.

Note also that until human trials are completed there aren't really any official 'health claims' as such. ie you shouldn't be able to go out and buy the drug for the purpose of anti-ageing and nobody should be marketing it as such.

It certainly doesn't seem to be a miracle drug as it is already used by some people and we don't hear reports of miraculously old people who are using it.

Also, too much has the opposite effect on mice:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/264218.php

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12017112/Worlds-first-anti-ageing-drug-could-see-humans-live-to-120.html

Just what we needed, now everybody can have a fifty year long retirement. Not sure what sort of a pension we'll be getting though...

You would work longer. And 120 might have a body of a 40-year-old

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12017112/Worlds-first-anti-ageing-drug-could-see-humans-live-to-120.html

Just what we needed, now everybody can have a fifty year long retirement. Not sure what sort of a pension we'll be getting though...

You want to die?

Have you converted to Islam?

Did the wife you divorced return?

Wut?

Originally posted by twhitehead
And don't rush out and start taking Metformin as there are significant possible side effects.
http://www.drugs.com/metformin.html

Have you some personal experience of this? Just wondering why you mention it; I know someone who is using the drug.