1. Standard memberLundos
    Back to basics
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    01 Dec '06 13:54
    Do to several banishments of engine players in the clan leagues, I think it would be fair to all participants to cancel the wins of set engines and give the points back to the other teams. Is this possible?

    P.S I only mean for the current season.
  2. Standard memberwargamer66
    Steve B.
    Salt Lake City
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    01 Dec '06 16:17
    Originally posted by Lundos
    Do to several banishments of engine players in the clan leagues, I think it would be fair to all participants to cancel the wins of set engines and give the points back to the other teams. Is this possible?

    P.S I only mean for the current season.
    I have to second this. In the current 1/14 league I will get two wins against Blackjack12 because of his banning. The problem is Blackjack has already won over half his games, which sort of hoses the folks who resigned.
  3. Joined
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    01 Dec '06 21:24
    Originally posted by Lundos
    Do to several banishments of engine players in the clan leagues, I think it would be fair to all participants to cancel the wins of set engines and give the points back to the other teams. Is this possible?

    P.S I only mean for the current season.
    Totally Agree. Recommended.

    This has also recently occured with GuaravV in the 3/7 league.
  4. Standard memberGalaxyShield
    Mr. Shield
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    02 Dec '06 00:51
    Originally posted by Lundos
    Do to several banishments of engine players in the clan leagues, I think it would be fair to all participants to cancel the wins of set engines and give the points back to the other teams. Is this possible?

    P.S I only mean for the current season.
    Completely agree.
  5. Joined
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    52930
    02 Dec '06 18:18
    Originally posted by Lundos
    Do to several banishments of engine players in the clan leagues, I think it would be fair to all participants to cancel the wins of set engines and give the points back to the other teams. Is this possible?

    P.S I only mean for the current season.
    Agreed and recc'ed.
  6. Standard membersven1000
    Astrophysicist
    Outer Space
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    02 Dec '06 19:13
    Recc'd

    I agree with this, even though it is my clan that has benefited from these two engines. We shouldn't receive those points. The rest of us, who don't use engines, would prefer to win or lose honestly. Their cheating has put a taint on our clan name.

    -sven1000
  7. Standard memberRed Night
    RHP Prophet
    pursuing happiness
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    02 Dec '06 21:17
    Originally posted by Lundos
    Do to several banishments of engine players in the clan leagues, I think it would be fair to all participants to cancel the wins of set engines and give the points back to the other teams. Is this possible?

    P.S I only mean for the current season.
    Recced.
  8. Standard memberLundos
    Back to basics
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    06 Dec '06 03:59
    So how about it?
  9. Standard memberGatecrasher
    Whale watching
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    06 Dec '06 06:48
    This is not an idea, it is a necessity.
  10. The sky
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    06 Dec '06 08:19
    Originally posted by Gatecrasher
    This is not an idea, it is a necessity.
    We need a new forum for Site Necessities.
  11. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    tinyurl.com/3sbbwd4
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    06 Dec '06 17:04
    Originally posted by Nordlys
    We need a new forum for Site Necessities.
    Is that an idea or an necessity?

    I hope Russ or Chris will do something about the engine users in clan league. Good idea.

    P-
  12. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    Cosmopolis
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    06 Dec '06 21:19
    Yes, it's ridiculous that half the players get losses and half wins soley due to the timing of a banishment. However there are a few players on the site who have managed to beat or draw with engine users without the assistence of an engine of their own. I think that it would be grossly unfair to cancel the points of someone who had achieved this. Which creates something of a problem...
  13. Standard memberGatecrasher
    Whale watching
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    07 Dec '06 00:07
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    Yes, it's ridiculous that half the players get losses and half wins soley due to the timing of a banishment. However there are a few players on the site who have managed to beat or draw with engine users without the assistence of an engine of their own. I think that it would be grossly unfair to cancel the points of someone who had achieved this. Which creates something of a problem...
    I think the idea is to award the active/incomplete games to the banned player's opponents (as per usual with no beneficial effect on ratings) but then also to zero out the points earned by the cheat in completed clan league games.

    The clan of the offending player should not get any points from the cheat's efforts (ie 0 points out of 54).

    If someone beat, or drew against, the engine user, they retain the benefit of the points earned.

    I don't,however, think losses against the banned player should be revesed, ie that players that were beaten by the engine user should suddenly earn 3 points. The nullification of those 3 points is sufficient retribution.

    This is also fully consistant with how engine use is treated in tournament rounds.
  14. SubscriberMarinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    tbc
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    07 Dec '06 00:22
    Originally posted by Gatecrasher

    I don't,however, think losses against the banned player should be revesed, ie that players that were beaten by the engine user should suddenly earn 3 points. The nullification of those 3 points is sufficient retribution.

    This is also fully consistant with how engine use is treated in tournament rounds.
    I disagree here. The Cheat should not be allowed to affect the out come of the tournament/League, as allowing their wins to stand puts quick players at a disadvantage to slow players. Just because someone managed to last long enough to pick up 3 points from a banned player, they are at an unfair advantage to someone who happened to lose, or get a draw 10 seconds earlier. If the cheats games are cancelled, then the remaining players compete amongst themselves, that is the only fair way to do it.
  15. Standard memberGatecrasher
    Whale watching
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    07 Dec '06 01:133 edits
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    If the cheats games are cancelled, then the remaining players compete amongst themselves, that is the only fair way to do it.
    And if someone beats the cheat, or in an incomplete game was winning, those games should be cancelled too?

    Is the effect of cancelling all the games sufficient "punishment" for the clan who fielded the cheat? The total effect would be the same as if the engine user had drawn all his games? That hardly seems fair or appropriate.

    I really don't think you can change outcomes and simply cancel past and active games. Well, not without a major rewrite of RHP's software.

    Games in tournaments are not cancelled, but all points won by the banned player are set to zero. Cancelling games in tournaments, on the other hand, would have a direct influence on the points that are awarded to other players in the round. I'm not sure that is a desirable outcome of a banning.

    Yes, there may be some injustices brought about by the timing of a ban, but the playing field is level. It is no diffeent from where a player suddenly resigns all their games in a tournament and leaves the site. Bad luck if you resigned your games against that player the day before.

    Over and above the normal procedure that occurs when a player is banned, I believe the best that can practically be achieved here is to zero all points won by the cheat for his clan in the currently active clan leagues.
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