Complete illiteracy

Are the ideas better or worse if they're written in perfect English or not so good English?
Or are ideas that come from people that don't have English as the first tounge better or worse?

I say that an idea depends of its own merits, not of the quality of the langage it is presented.

As this site is motored from USA the choice of language is obvious, but the majority of the people of the world has not English as mother tounge (like myself) and shouldn't be treated as less valued.

In my opinion the most grouse language are coming from people that from beginning is coming from English speaking countries.

My English is not perfect but I hope that everyone read what I mean instead of commenting my grammar or choice of words. And here at RHP i enjoy writing my ideas and opinions.

Originally posted by Nordlys
The grammar better, would I say, yes.

Thanks, Yoda.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Are the ideas better or worse if they're written in perfect English or not so good English?
Or are ideas that come from people that don't have English as the first tounge better or worse?

I say that an idea depends of its own merits, not of the quality of the langage it is presented.

As this site is motored from USA the choice of language is obvio ...[text shortened]... menting my grammar or choice of words. And here at RHP i enjoy writing my ideas and opinions.

We all make mistakes, but some posts are quite difficult to decipher. When clarification is sought and the original poster gets belligerent, instead of humbly stating that she is making an effort in an alien tongue, I'd like to remove a rec.

Most of the truly illiterate posts are from Americans who know only (American) English--Bowmann assures us that even written correctly, this language is not English--and, since they fail at even that, they are literate in no language. Places like Fort Worth produce more than their share of these incompetents.

I say we have to decipher what is decipherable, try to understand what they really mean, help them on the way by intelligently guessing their meaning and answer the question we think they're asking.

There is something that's called dyslexia. By removing postings that is not straight clear is to offend thhem who have dyslexia. Dyslexia has nothing to do with IQ or bad mental abilities. The fact that they're interested in chess is enough to be welcomed here at RHP.

But what I don't like is that some seem to think that a ideas value has to do with the posters language abilities. No way.

(I hope you can disipher my point despite the fact that I produce some (a lot of?) ortographic and/or grammar misteiks and/or syntactic errors and don't take me for an inferior due to the fact that I don't have English as my first language...?)

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I say we have to decipher what is decipherable, try to understand what they really mean, help them on the way by intelligently guessing their meaning and answer the question we think they're asking.

There is something that's called dyslexia. By removing postings that is not straight clear is to offend thhem who have dyslexia. Dyslexia has nothing to do ...[text shortened]... ake me for an inferior due to the fact that I don't have English as my first language...?)

Your errors, which are abundant, reinforce the point I'm making. I understand perfectly what you are saying despite them. As an English teacher and a parent of a dyslexic child, I well know the differences between errors of syntax and spelling that stem from second language difficulties, on the one hand, and learning disabilities. However, the posts I have in mind stem from something else entirely: a confused mind or general incompetence, perhaps compounded by certain linguistic barriers.

I don't want to remove illiterate posts. I do want to give a negative rec to someone who posts something indecipherable, and then be comes belligerant when clarification is sought.

In fact, my suggestion, if implemented, is subject to such abuse as to create far more problems than it could solve. It should be rejected on these grounds, not because gross illiteracy deserves censure.

Perhaps I misunderstand you a little.
What I thought you wanted is marking to belittle ones ideas of the sole reason that he has a inferior language.
Sorry for that.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Perhaps I misunderstand you a little.
What I thought you wanted is marking to belittle ones ideas of the sole reason that he has a inferior language.
Sorry for that.

Actually English is the inferior language, as even its native speakers have difficulty using it competently. 😉

My problem is with those who hide the absence of thought behind incompetent communication. Then, when you ask for clarification, they get in a snit. A better example of the sort of thing that promted this thread is the following exchange in [threadid]782366[threadid]


Under the title Movie Directors and Writers, the opening post was

Originally posted by Nicksten
Do these people go high cause they can use and abuse the name of Jesus Christ?

How pathetic and lame!!! LOSERS! Disgusting! I would rather through up then looking at movies like that!

I asked

Originally posted by Wulebgr
What on earth are you talking about?

To which he replied

Originally posted by Nicksten
Read the header and the first line of my remark......
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
did you read it?


That is what its all about 🙄

There's no specific critique there, and nothing that singles out anyone involved in film in any particular way. There's no idea at all, and the language is incompetent


NOTICE for bad spellers: if you don't know the difference between "throw up" and "through up," you can save a lot of grief with puke.

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/errors/errors.html

(Common errors in English)

I'm not sure if it covers someone writing 'game bird' language, though.

Originally posted by mosquitorespect
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/errors/errors.html

(Common errors in English)

I'm not sure if it covers someone writing 'game bird' language, though.

Good site, although Paul Brians is a bit of a snob in my experience--a left-wing snob, if you can imagine that. He was a disappointment to many of us in graduate school. Although he had an interest in postcolonial literature, he manifested a preference over old fashioned pedantic reading of texts, and pretended to know nothing of postcolonial theory.

His book that grew out of this website is well worth the price. It carries the same title, Common Errors in English.

Originally posted by Wulebgr
Thanks, Yoda.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Are the ideas better or worse if they're written in perfect English or not so good English?
Or are ideas that come from people that don't have English as the first tounge better or worse?
I say that an idea depends of its own merits, not of the quality of the langage it is presented.[.....text shortened.]
My English is not perfect but I hope that everyone read what I mean instead of commenting my grammar or choice of words. And here at RHP i enjoy writing my ideas and opinions.


Originally posted by Wulebgr
Thanks, Yoda.


FABIAN - you make good points and you as well as others should not be looked down upon because of spelling, grammar, etc. If someone does not understand they should ask for a clarification. Nice flag, I'm also glad to see other's proud of their national symbols.

WULEBGR - Don't you feel any shame? I'm ashamed that you are from the USA.

Originally posted by sword4damocles
Originally posted by FabianFnas
[b]Are the ideas better or worse if they're written in perfect English or not so good English?
Or are ideas that come from people that don't have English as the first tounge better or worse?
I say that an idea depends of its own merits, not of the quality of the langage it is presented.[.....text shortened.] ...[text shortened]... l symbols.

WULEBGR - Don't you feel any shame? I'm ashamed that you are from the USA.

WULEBGR - Sorry about such a deep stab.

I should have just written "mean" or something like that.

You're ok as an American too, even though you are educated... 😉

Originally posted by sword4damocles

FABIAN - you make good points and you as well as others should not be looked down upon because of spelling, grammar, etc. If someone does not understand they should ask for a clarification. Nice flag, I'm also glad to see other's proud of their national symbols.

Thank you, sword4damocles!
I'm glad that you understand my postings correctly.

The flag is actually there as a hint why my words may not be 100% clear, but my thoughts are, and here's the reason.

RHP is global. There are people from all over the world. Together we speak a lot of different languages but there is only one used in the postings.
Wouldn't it be nice to have general forums in French, Spanish, German, Portugues (and Swedish?) as well?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Wouldn't it be nice to have general forums in French, Spanish, German, Portugues (and Swedish?) as well?

NO, too much band width and the majority speak English so the multilingual forums wouldn't be used that much, saying that though, if you want to post sometime in another language you can..... not sure how many replies you will get though!?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Thank you, sword4damocles!
I'm glad that you understand my postings correctly.

The flag is actually there as a hint why my words may not be 100% clear, but my thoughts are, and here's the reason.

RHP is global. There are people from all over the world. Together we speak a lot of different languages but there is only one used in the postings.
Woul ...[text shortened]... be nice to have general forums in French, Spanish, German, Portugues (and Swedish?) as well?

I have no objection in 'principle', but as you pointed out, this is an American site.

I don't think the administrators would be able to moderate the other languages very well. Especially when one add's in all the euphemisms and colloqualisms of a particular country. I'm sure the French, German, etc. have plenty of venues to visit with forums in their native toungue.

I think any host site should reserve the right to declare what language will be used on the site. I also believe that people should be given a break for misspellings, grammar, etc. as I've mentioned before.

If

Originally posted by sword4damocles
I have no objection in 'principle', but as you pointed out, this is an American site.

I don't think the administrators would be able to moderate the other languages very well. Especially when one add's in all the euphemisms and colloqualisms of a particular country. I'm sure the French, German, etc. have plenty of venues to visit with forums in t ...[text shortened]... people should be given a break for misspellings, grammar, etc. as I've mentioned before.

You are so right.

I'm here primarily to play chess, discussion various things in other hand. If RHP doesn't offer me the possibility to discuss in the glory language of mine (?) I will still be a proud member of Red Hot Pawn.

This is the best site in the world in its kind.