1. Standard memberlloydk
    Into the Breach!
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    03 Oct '04 05:57
    Given the noise in the forums about computer-assisted play, it's apparent that some players are using computers and other players are upset about it.

    Why not set up an advanced chess league where computer use is permitted? This would have several benefits:

    1) It would allow players who want to use computers to do so, and enable them to play each other, which seems fairer than what's happening now.

    2) It would let players who haven't been using computers experiment with assisted play. Duffers like me would have a chance to play against strong opposition without blundering away a piece in the first ten moves (in theory, anyway 😕) . Players could even have two ratings: one with computer assistance and one without.

    3) It would make enforcement of the rules easier by providing an alternative to bannination. Players who persisted in computer use, rather than being banned from the site, could simply be exiled to the computer-assisted area.

    4) It would make using computers in the "classic" league even lamer and more pointless than it is now.

    Just a thought.
  2. ruislipwoods
    Joined
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    03 Oct '04 11:50
    Use it to flush them out.
    Then three weeks after the end of the league we can throw them all out. :-))
  3. Joined
    23 Feb '03
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    83654
    05 Oct '04 09:05
    Originally posted by seanpbutler
    Use it to flush them out.
    Then three weeks after the end of the league we can throw them all out. :-))
    That deserves a rec 😉
  4. DonationAcolyte
    Now With Added BA
    Loughborough
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    05 Oct '04 10:301 edit
    Originally posted by lloydk
    Given the noise in the forums about computer-assisted play, it's apparent that some players are using computers and other players are upset about it.

    Why not set up an advanced chess league where computer use is permitted? This would ha ...[text shortened]... even lamer and more pointless than it is now.

    Just a thought.
    I like. Perhaps program users (either declared or discovered) should get a badge after their name, so people can decide whether they want to play a computer or not.
  5. Zeist, Holland
    Joined
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    05 Oct '04 10:35
    I think it is not a good idea. If you condone computer assistance in even a few instances, there would be no end in up making more and more content for these people. And besides, such a league isn't interesting. The only thing to consider is who has the best engine. Let's just keep it to human-human chess.
  6. Dominican Republic
    Joined
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    15 Oct '04 20:31
    Originally posted by piderman
    I think it is not a good idea. If you condone computer assistance in even a few instances, there would be no end in up making more and more content for these people. And besides, such a league isn't interesting. The only thing to consider is who has the best engine. Let's just keep it to human-human chess.
    For me it is a good idea, this comes engine wars and opening wars, and like in chessbase you can play two ways computer and Human and two ratings.
  7. Joined
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    16 Oct '04 04:35
    I came here to play chess.... if i want to play a computer ill buy an x-box, i am sure it could teach me a few things..... if u want to have programing wars then join a programmers club. we came here to play chess and unfortunitly some people are more worried about their ratings then having a good time and its always going to be like that. i think if u ok computers just a little bit u will never get them back under control again and will end up banning them again... besides, if they are cheating with them right now dont u think that they would continue to do so. they are not cheating to use the computers, they are cheating to win.. just find them where u can and exile them....
  8. Standard memberlloydk
    Into the Breach!
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    16 Oct '04 16:121 edit
    Originally posted by ChessOneOhOne
    I came here to play chess.... if i want to play a computer ill buy an x-box, i am sure it could teach me a few things..... if u want to have programing wars then join a programmers club. we came here to play chess and unfortunitly so ...[text shortened]... re cheating to win.. just find them where u can and exile them....
    I think your point about ratings is on the mark. Some people are here to play "chess" and some people are here to play "rating".

    All the more reason to create separate leagues.
  9. Standard memberExy
    Damn fine Clan!
    Account suspended
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    16 Oct '04 22:022 edits
    Originally posted by lloydk
    I think your point about ratings is on the mark. Some people are here to play "chess" and some people are here to play "rating".

    All the more reason to create separate leagues.
    I've heard this argument a lot recently on here. It simply misunderstands the motivation that people have to cheat in the first place. People don't cheat to show off the prowess of their computer's processor, they cheat cos that want to fool people into thinking they are better players than they actually are. You can create as many computer assisted leagues as you like and not one will stop potential cheaters continuing to use computers in the real player league, so please stop suggesting such a stupid and naive notion.
  10. Standard membercludi
    Blogger
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    16 Oct '04 23:54
    Originally posted by Exy
    I've heard this argument a lot recently on here. It simply misunderstands the motivation that people have to cheat in the first place. People don't cheat to show off the prowess of their computer's processor, they cheat cos that want to fool people into thinking they are better players than they actually are. You can create as many computer assisted league ...[text shortened]... e computers in the real player league, so please stop suggesting such a stupid and naive notion.
    hear!
    you got my rec for that one!
  11. Standard memberlloydk
    Into the Breach!
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    17 Oct '04 04:561 edit
    Originally posted by Exy
    I've heard this argument a lot recently on here. It simply misunderstands the motivation that people have to cheat in the first place. People don't cheat to show off the prowess of their computer's processor, they cheat cos that want to fo ...[text shortened]... league, so please stop suggesting such a stupid and naive notion.
    I suspect the cheaters have a lot of different motivations. You're right. Some of them are so deluded that they think we will believe their 80-0-0 records are legitimate. OK, someone that dumb is probably not going to play in a separate league. Maybe you know what percentage of the cheaters fall into that category. I don't.

    But I think it would be very interesting to have a separate league. You are a very strong player, I ain't. If we were to play on the regular site I would not win one game out of fifty against you. But if we played a game of advanced chess, with both of us using engines to assist, it would probably be a lot more interesting for both of us. I probably wouldn't win, but I also wouldn't play an obvious mistake in the opening, like I usually do against stronger players. And you'd get a higher grade of competition.

    So I don't think it's naive or stupid. People are already using computers, let's give them a place where they can do so legitimately.
  12. Standard memberExy
    Damn fine Clan!
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    17 Oct '04 14:16
    RHP already allows players to use books and databases to improve thier game. I don't think you're a weak player at all, but if you want to improve your opening play then perhaps you should invest in a database. People should be encouraged to do that rather than relying on an engine to make all their moves for them.
  13. Graceland.
    Joined
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    19 Oct '04 00:22
    Originally posted by piderman
    I think it is not a good idea. If you condone computer assistance in even a few instances, there would be no end in up making more and more content for these people. And besides, such a league isn't interesting. The only thing to consider is who has the best engine. Let's just keep it to human-human chess.

    Really, whats the difference between using a computer and using databases and books ? Is it also wrong then to browse archived games to decide future moves ?

  14. Standard memberorfeo
    Paralysed analyst
    On a ship of fools
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    20 Oct '04 08:16
    Really, whats the difference between using a computer and using databases and books ? Is it also wrong then to browse archived games to decide future moves ?
    The difference in using a database or book is that you will still have to make some choice about which move you make, based on recommendations. Using a computer means you hand the decision over entirely.
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