Ladders

Standard memberdfm65
Site Ideas 04 Jun '05 20:42
  1. Standard memberdfm65
    The Godfather
    e8
    Joined
    29 Jan '02
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    52216
    04 Jun '05 20:42
    Here's an idea i saw at itsyourturn.com, which i think is a lot better than Seiges.
    The idea is to reach the #1 spot. you can challenge up to 2 players on the ladder at any one time, and you can be challenged by 2 players at any one time. So at any one time you can have max 4 ladder games going. you can only challenge or be challenged by players within 20 spots of you on the ladder. so if you are at #100, you can challenge or be challenged by players from #80 - #120 (usually you will challenge those above, and be challenged by those below). if you defeat someone above you, you take their spot, and everyone below them drops a spot to make way. if you defeat someone below, you move up a spot. if you lose, you stay where you are.
    it works really well, and the big advantage over seiges is that the whole ladder is active instead of just the top two spots, so no long wait for any activity.
    how about it Russ? any chance this could be put on the 'to do' list?
  2. Berks.
    Joined
    27 Nov '04
    Moves
    41991
    04 Jun '05 21:51
    At IYT they weren't (in my experience) too impressive even for relatively short games. Besides, with only playing one game here, and having a decent ranking system in place (something which seems quite bizzarely lacking at IYT), it does kind of negate half the point of the ladder.
  3. Standard memberdfm65
    The Godfather
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    Joined
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    52216
    04 Jun '05 22:43
    Originally posted by Peakite
    At IYT they weren't (in my experience) too impressive even for relatively short games. Besides, with only playing one game here, and having a decent ranking system in place (something which seems quite bizzarely lacking at IYT), it does kind of negate half the point of the ladder.
    perhaps you could elucidate a bit: in what way did you find them unsatisfactory? as for the ranking system, i agree that there's no overall ranking system there, but there is for the ladders: your ranking is simply your position on the ladder.
  4. Berks.
    Joined
    27 Nov '04
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    41991
    05 Jun '05 17:04
    Originally posted by dfm65
    perhaps you could elucidate a bit: in what way did you find them unsatisfactory? as for the ranking system, i agree that there's no overall ranking system there, but there is for the ladders: your ranking is simply your position on the ladder.
    Well my experience there has been based solely upon playing Jamble on their ladders, a game with typically 15-20 moves each, and certainly not something which can last as long as chess.

    In the long term position on the ladders would no doubt relect upon relative strengths, but being far too slow a process in the longer ladder. In order to find equivalent level opponents, a ranking system such as that used at RHP is so much clearer.

    As for competing in the ladder itself, it was frustrating, particularly with their vacation rule for ladders. Moving up depending on factors such as the timing of the resignations (one space up for one victory as she resigned from a ladder, but had the game been completed - one play, and I'd got the win it would have been sixty). And this for a relatively small ladder of 400. Added to there is the option of tactical resignations, if you move above an opponent, challenge another but then the option to challenge someone else who is just within reach of a win against a higher ranked player, do you resign a winning position against one of them ?

    Now given current timeout rules here, and as an ongoing exercise rendering very short timeout/timebank ususable, and also playing only one game, it'd take an awful long time for many players to progress through what could potentially be a very large ladder. Were someone of the ability/move rate of Akizy to join he'd spend all the time playing random newcomers and the weakest players.
  5. Standard memberdfm65
    The Godfather
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    Joined
    29 Jan '02
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    52216
    05 Jun '05 17:36
    Originally posted by Peakite
    Well my experience there has been based solely upon playing Jamble on their ladders, a game with typically 15-20 moves each, and certainly not something which can last as long as chess.

    In the long term position on the ladders would no doubt relect upon relative strengths, but being far too slow a process in the longer ladder. In order to find equivalent ...[text shortened]... rate of Akizy to join he'd spend all the time playing random newcomers and the weakest players.
    sure, that's all valid, but remember i'm only suggesting them as an addition to or in place of sieges. i don't know if you are familiar with those but basically you just sit in a queue. the guy at the head of the queue gets to challenge the incumbent - a win makes him the new incumbent, and the guy behind him is his/her first challenger. so you only move up the queue one place at a time. ladders are faster than this. as for the rest, so what if you can make tactical resignations? i do that, and more to get up the ladder quickly. it's not about finding opponents of the same strength - most tournaments here and the sieges don't give that either - it's about the long term goal of moving up the ladder. the best players will naturally rise to the top in time...
    thanks for the input...
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