I wrote to you in my letter not with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.
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@eladar saidPaul seems to be asking a question. You can avoid associating with people without being a judgmental bratty yob about it.
I wrote to you in my letter not with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drun ...[text shortened]... not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.
Matthew 7: (KJV)
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
@moonbus
The word “judging” is quite a relative word.
Strictly speaking, every time you exercise your choice, you are judging something as more acceptable (or better) and the alternative as less acceptable (or worse).
I believe the Matt 7 portion refers to judging in the sense of believing somebody else to be worse, or lesser, than you are. This is essentially pride. The opposite, which is looking at the beam in your own eye, is humility.
The Paul portion also refers to choices - you should avoid people that can have a negative influence on you and/or your emotional state. In other words, chose those with whom you wish to be associated.
For example, I studiously avoid negative people, those who constantly complain about the government, the economy and other stuff, and try to associate with upbeat, positive people.
This is not because I judge them as inferior or worse than me, but simply for the very practical reason that I do not want to be contaminated by their negativity.
Bottom line, imho, is that judging in itself is not bad (in fact, you cannot avoid it) but it is the sentiment behind the judging that should be examined.
@caljust saidI was responding to Eladar’s second post, “I started this for you dj. It is also for those who falsely claim the Bible says Christians should never judge anyone,” which carries on from some comments made in another thread.
@moonbus
The word “judging” is quite a relative word.
Strictly speaking, every time you exercise your choice, you are judging something as more acceptable (or better) and the alternative as less acceptable (or worse).
I believe the Matt 7 portion refers to judging in the sense of believing somebody else to be worse, or lesser, than you are. This is essentially pride. ...[text shortened]... d (in fact, you cannot avoid it) but it is the sentiment behind the judging that should be examined.
The passage from Corinthians is an admonition not to subject oneself to corrupting influences, to avoid situations in which one is liable to be led into temptation. This requires clear and accurate perception of the situation and it’s dangers, and a course of action or avoidance based on some ethical precepts. For one’s own good. This sort of judgement is a mental capacity or faculty, applicable to any ethical system, Christian or otherwise, and hardly needs to be argued. This sort of judgement is necessary for any moral activity.
This is not the same as judging other people to be better or worse sorts of people, more or less deserving of rights, entitlements, respect, damnation or salvation, or God’s love. This sort of judgement, whereby some person is morally devalued, is prejudicial to moral activity. This is the sort of judgement which is proscribed in Matt 7:1-5. This is the sort of judgement which, in the Christian scheme of things, is reserved to God alone.
@caljust saidNotice Paul did not say judge all people. I do not believe what you are saying about association is accurate.
@moonbus
The word “judging” is quite a relative word.
Strictly speaking, every time you exercise your choice, you are judging something as more acceptable (or better) and the alternative as less acceptable (or worse).
I believe the Matt 7 portion refers to judging in the sense of believing somebody else to be worse, or lesser, than you are. This is essentially pride. ...[text shortened]... d (in fact, you cannot avoid it) but it is the sentiment behind the judging that should be examined.
@moonbus said1 Corithians 5 says to cast out the immoral brother not simply to avoid his sin.
I was responding to Eladar’s second post, “I started this for you dj. It is also for those who falsely claim the Bible says Christians should never judge anyone,” which carries on from some comments made in another thread.
The passage from Corinthians is an admonition not to subject oneself to corrupting influences, to avoid situations in which one is liable to be led into ...[text shortened]... 5. This is the sort of judgement which, in the Christian scheme of things, is reserved to God alone.
Are you actually that blind or do you simply tell lies and expect people to believe them?
@dj2becker saidHe is asking no question other than how can you not expel this guy. I have shown you where to look in the Bible about who to judge and who not to judge. If you believe Paul then it should be enough.
Paul seems to be asking a question. You can avoid associating with people without being a judgmental bratty yob about it.