1. Joined
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    28 Feb '17 16:352 edits
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+7&version=NASB


    Lots of stuff here, I think it would be great to have a discussion about something larger than the husband wife thing. I'll cut and paste verses and make a comment about each.

    Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3 The husband must [a]fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband

    According to Paul, one valid reason for marriage is to avoid sexual immorality. The implication here, which I hope most of us can agree, is that sex outside of marriage is immoral.

    If sex isn't an issue for you, then it is better to not get married at all.

    The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and [b]come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 But this I say by way of concession, not of command. 7 [c]Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that.

    Once a man and woman get married, their bodies are no longer their own. I think this is a crucial point of Christianity that isn't well understood by many. Paul brings up this point in Romans where he says we were bought with a price (Jesus' death and resurrection) so our lives are to be living sacrifices. Our bodies (or lives) in general are not our own, but God's.

    I think this is really the point of contention for most people.

    But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

    Once again, don't get married! If you have a strong sex drive, then by all means get married.

    But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not [d]leave her husband 11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not [e]divorce his wife.

    Don't get divorced, but a way out for a woman who doesn't want to have sex! Just leave your husband but don't remarry. Of course this would just undo what he just said about her body not being her own. Guys are not offered this way out. I think there is something deeper here.

    But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not [f]divorce her. 13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not [g]send her husband away. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through [h]her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. 15 Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called [i]us [j]to peace. 16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

    Notice, not the Lord. His advice is to stick with the unbeliever so that the unbeliever could be saved. Sacrifice you happiness for another person.

    Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches. 18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. 20 Each man must remain in that [k]condition in which he was called.

    Comment on those who demanded that Gentile converts follow Jewish rituals. Paul was against this practice. Lots of comments like this by Paul throughout his writings.

    Were you called while a slave? [l]Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather [m]do that. 22 For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord’s freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ’s slave. 23 You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brethren, each one is to remain with God in that condition in which he was called.

    Slavery not an important thing to escape? I'm sure there are many who would call this evil. Evidently our condition isn't all that important. We are all slaves, Christians are a slave to Christ. Slaves to Christ means that we live sacrificial lives. Ties back into not divorcing non-Christians and husband's body being the wife's and wife's body being the husband's.

    Now concerning virgins I have no command of the Lord, but I give an opinion as one who [n]by the mercy of the Lord is trustworthy. 26 I think then that this is good in view of the [o]present distress, that it is good for a man [p]to remain as he is. 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But if you marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Yet such will have [q]trouble in this life, and I am trying to spare you. 29 But this I say, brethren, the time has been shortened, so that from now on those who have wives should be as though they had none; 30 and those who weep, as though they did not weep; and those who rejoice, as though they did not rejoice; and those who buy, as though they did not possess; 31 and those who use the world, as though they did not make full use of it; for the form of this world is passing away.

    Once again commands to not marry, but if you do get married then you have not sinned. When you get married to escape burning with passion you end up with other problems. There is no escaping problems. We are to live differently than the world in any case. Those of us who did get married know that marriage brings with it all new problems that you didn't have when you were single.

    But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; 33 but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, 34 and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35 This I say for your own benefit; not to put a restraint upon you, but [r]to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord.

    I think that's self explanatory. Devote your life to the Lord, but getting married makes it more difficult to do. You are to take care of your family too and take others more into consideration.

    36 But if any man thinks that he is acting unbecomingly toward his virgin daughter, if she is past her youth, and if it must be so, let him do what he wishes, he does not sin; let [s]her marry. 37 But he who stands firm in his heart, [t]being under no constraint, but has authority [u]over his own will, and has decided this in his own heart, to keep his own virgin daughter, he will do well. 38 So then both he who gives his own virgin daughter in marriage does well, and he who does not give her in marriage will do better.

    I'm not sure why NASB uses daughter here. No other version does that I know. I guess that same word is used for both? In any case I think this is the male version of what Paul wrote about girls above this.

    A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband [v]is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord. 40 But in my opinion she is happier if she remains as she is; and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.

    Once again, stay as you are. If her husband dies, don't get remarried.

    I wonder why so many Christians say that one should be married. Paul and even Jesus say that it is better to not.
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Feb '17 17:32
    Originally posted by Eladar
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+7&version=NASB


    Lots of stuff here, I think it would be great to have a discussion about something larger than the husband wife thing. I'll cut and paste verses and make a comment about each.

    [b]Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But ...[text shortened]... ny Christians say that one should be married. Paul and even Jesus say that it is better to not.
    There is a passage in the Bible where there are 7 sins that God hates. Sexual immorality is not listed as one. I wonder why?
  3. Joined
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    28 Feb '17 17:351 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    There is a passage in the Bible where there are 7 sins that God hates. Sexual immorality is not listed as one. I wonder why?
    Not sure, but Jesus said that sexual immorality is one of the sins that reveals what it is one's heart. Paul wrote that you should not fool yourself, the sexually immoral are not going to heaven. Seems to be pretty important.

    For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, [a]fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. 20 These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.”

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+15%3A19-20&version=NASB
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Feb '17 18:01
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Not sure, but Jesus said that sexual immorality is one of the sins that reveals what it is one's heart. Paul wrote that you should not fool yourself, the sexually immoral are not going to heaven. Seems to be pretty important.

    [b]For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, [a]fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. 20 These are th ...[text shortened]... le the man.”


    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+15%3A19-20&version=NASB[/b]
    Where did that passage talk about going to heaven?
  5. Joined
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    28 Feb '17 18:051 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Where did that passage talk about going to heaven?
    From Jesus? Just that it is evil.

    Going to heaven is from Paul.

    Here is Paul

    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [f]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Feb '17 18:42
    Originally posted by Eladar
    From Jesus? Just that it is evil.

    Going to heaven is from Paul.

    Here is Paul

    [b]Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [f]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inh ...[text shortened]... nd in the Spirit of our God.


    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6[/b]
    Another one .
    .. But nothing about going to heaven
  7. Joined
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    28 Feb '17 18:44
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Another one .
    .. But nothing about going to heaven
    Ah yes, you like to play word games. Kingdom of God is not heaven to you. OK, then to you it doesn't.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Feb '17 18:55
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Ah yes, you like to play word games. Kingdom of God is not heaven to you. OK, then to you it doesn't.
    I'm showing you that the bible says things and people put their own meaning to it.

    The bible never said anyone goes to heaven and yet you add in that for yourself.

    The bible says sexual immortality is a sin and yet many ignore it.
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    28 Feb '17 19:02
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    I'm showing you that the bible says things and people put their own meaning to it.

    The bible never said anyone goes to heaven and yet you add in that for yourself.

    The bible says sexual immortality is a sin and yet many ignore it.
    Looks like you need another thread.
  10. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    28 Feb '17 19:24
    Originally posted by Eladar
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+7&version=NASB


    Lots of stuff here, I think it would be great to have a discussion about something larger than the husband wife thing. I'll cut and paste verses and make a comment about each.

    [b]Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But ...[text shortened]... ny Christians say that one should be married. Paul and even Jesus say that it is better to not.
    " The implication here, which I hope most of us can agree, is that sex outside of marriage is immoral."

    I don't agree with that statement.
  11. Joined
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    28 Feb '17 19:271 edit
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    " The implication here, which I hope most of us can agree, is that sex outside of marriage is immoral."

    I don't agree with that statement.
    The statement itself, not the truth of it. Of course you don't agree with it.

    Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3 The husband must [a]fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband

    Do you agree he is talking about sex here?
  12. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    28 Feb '17 19:39
    Originally posted by Eladar
    The statement itself, not the truth of it. Of course you don't agree with it.

    [b]Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3 The husband must [a]fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband


    Do you agree he is talking about sex here?[/b]
    Sorry, my morality doesn't come from an ancient book.

    Sex outside of marriage can be a beneficial thing, on many levels, especially if one is looking for a long lasting marriage of compatibility.
  13. Joined
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    28 Feb '17 19:45
    Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
    Sorry, my morality doesn't come from an ancient book.

    Sex outside of marriage can be a beneficial thing, on many levels, especially if one is looking for a long lasting marriage of compatibility.
    I was just talking about the text, not your personal morality.
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 Feb '17 20:351 edit
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Looks like you need another thread.
    Im pretty sure God hates liars/lying more than he hates sexual immorality.
  15. SubscriberGhost of a Duke
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    28 Feb '17 21:00
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I was just talking about the text, not your personal morality.
    You said 'The implication here, which I hope most of us can agree, is that sex outside of marriage is immoral.'

    How is that not a question about my personal morality? You ask if we agree with the implications of the text. I don't.
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