1. Joined
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    30 Sep '12 23:33
    But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. (1 Samuel 16:14, 15 KJV)

    Did God give Saul this evil spirit? Or when the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul did this allow Satan to give Saul an evil spirit?

    Was God punishing Saul for his disobedience , or did Saul's disobedience allow Satan to step in?

    Can any believers give me some clarification on these two verses?

    Boonon
  2. Standard memberRemoved
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    01 Oct '12 01:38
    Originally posted by boonon
    But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. (1 Samuel 16:14, 15 KJV)

    Did God give Saul this evil spirit? Or when the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul did this allow Satan to give Saul an evil spirit?

    Was God punis ...[text shortened]... tan to step in?

    Can any believers give me some clarification on these two verses?

    Boonon
    Did God give Saul this evil spirit?

    No

    Or when the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul did this allow Satan to give Saul an evil spirit?

    Yes

    Was God punishing Saul for his disobedience

    No

    or did Saul's disobedience allow Satan to step in?

    Yes

    God cannot do evil, He is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. He is holy. The people in the Old Testament thought Good and Evil both came from God. They did not have holy spirit except for a select few and even then it was conditional.
    They were not equipped to handle spiritual matters of this nature. It wasn't until Jesus Christ came and "declared" God. He is the one who said all evil comes from Satan and God can only do good.
    Now we have the gift of holy spirit with it's nine manifestations, one is discerning of spirits.
    There is an excellent seminar for free download that covers all of this. It is called "Journey through the Old Testament".. It can be found here...

    http://stfonlinestore.com/ajourneythroughtheoldtestament.aspx

    There is a charge to buy on CD, but a free download...
  3. Joined
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    01 Oct '12 02:29
    Another thought on this:

    A Bad Spirit From Jehovah”

    “And the very spirit of Jehovah departed from Saul, and a bad spirit from Jehovah terrorized him.” (1 Samuel 16:14) Do you know what this means?

    We do not have to understand that Jehovah literally sent an evil spirit to terrorize Saul. Rather, when Jehovah removed his holy spirit, Saul was possessed by a bad spirit, or an inward urge to do wrong. (Compare Matthew 12:43-45.)
    Why is Jehovah referred to as the source of this bad spirit? Because he made it possible for Saul to be possessed by wrong urges, or impulses, when he removed his holy spirit. This “bad spirit” removed Saul’s peace of mind and, on occasion, caused him to act irrationally.
  4. Standard membermenace71
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    01 Oct '12 02:39
    6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and [b]Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.” 8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you [c]considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, [d]fearing God and turning away from evil.” 9 Then Satan answered the [e]Lord, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But put forth Your hand now and touch all that he has; he will surely curse You to Your face.” 12 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your [f]power, only do not put forth your hand on him.” So Satan departed from the presence of the Lord.

    Satan Allowed to Test Job

    13 Now on the day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 14 a messenger came to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the [g]donkeys feeding beside them, 15 and [h]the Sabeans [i]attacked and took them. They also [j]slew the servants with the edge of the sword, and [k]I alone have escaped to tell you.” 16 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” 17 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “The Chaldeans formed three bands and made a raid on the camels and took them and [l]slew the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you.” 18 While he was still speaking, another also came and said, “Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother’s house, 19 and behold, a great wind came from across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people and they died, and I alone have escaped to tell you.”

    God said go Satan only spare his life

    Manny
  5. Joined
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    01 Oct '12 02:57
    Originally posted by menace71
    6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and [b]Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.” 8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you [c]considered My servant Job? For there is no one ...[text shortened]... y died, and I alone have escaped to tell you.”

    God said go Satan only spare his life

    Manny
    So what exactly are you saying?
  6. Joined
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    01 Oct '12 11:12
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Another thought on this:

    A Bad Spirit From Jehovah”

    “And the very spirit of Jehovah departed from Saul, and a bad spirit from Jehovah terrorized him.” (1 Samuel 16:14) Do you know what this means?

    We do not have to understand that Jehovah literally sent an evil spirit to terrorize Saul. Rather, when Jeho ...[text shortened]... This “bad spirit” removed Saul’s peace of mind and, on occasion, caused him to act irrationally.
    Thanks Galveston,

    Appreciate your thoughts.

    Does this mean that as long as we have God's holy spirit (it is not removed from us) that we no longer have these thoughts to do wrong?

    And once we as Christians receive the gift of holy spirit do you believe God can or will take it away?
  7. SubscriberProper Knob
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    01 Oct '12 11:18
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    [b]Did God give Saul this evil spirit?

    No

    Or when the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul did this allow Satan to give Saul an evil spirit?

    Yes

    Was God punishing Saul for his disobedience

    No

    or did Saul's disobedience allow Satan to step in?

    Yes

    God cannot do evil, He is light and in Him there is no dar ...[text shortened]... rneythroughtheoldtestament.aspx

    There is a charge to buy on CD, but a free download...[/b]
    How do you interpret Isaiah 45:7?
  8. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
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    01 Oct '12 12:011 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    How do you interpret Isaiah 45:7?
    The short answer (as at http://carm.org/does-god-create-evil ) is that the bible is mistranslated and the word "evil" in English has different connotations to the original text, where it refers rather to misfortune or calamity such as natural disasters. Very satisfying.

    The long answer is that the Bible only tells the truth after an expert has carefully interpreted it for us, with myriad issues of translation between languages, copying between earlier and later texts, editing, revising, selecting and deselecting as approved content, etc. So on the one hand, we must accept the wisdom of the bible, on the other, it would be foolish for an amateur to try and read the stuff looking for any sense. Even if it means what it says we are not entirely sure what it does say. Obviously some passages cause more confusion than others but the principle remains. And then when we think a passage is clear enough, we are told we cannot interpret this out of context, but must study the bible as a whole to find a correct reading, which might (if necessary) be the opposite of what is written there.

    What we are offered as received wisdom, in other words, is a social product, processed so many times that its ostensible heavenly origins can only be asserted and never demonstrated.

    A simple example is the allegorical one of passing a message along a WW1 trench, which gradually shifts in meaning and content to become quite different by the end.

    Another example is the Genesis account of the creation. Instead of arguing if it is true or false, it is worth reading to appreciate that it says so little that this hardly matters. True or false does not arise, as it says next to nothing anyway. All the debate is really not about Genesis but about what some people would like to argue it really means (but never actually says).
  9. Joined
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    01 Oct '12 13:03
    Originally posted by boonon
    But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. (1 Samuel 16:14, 15 KJV)

    Did God give Saul this evil spirit? Or when the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul did this allow Satan to give Saul an evil spirit?

    Was God punis ...[text shortened]... tan to step in?

    Can any believers give me some clarification on these two verses?

    Boonon
    A better way to think of it is if the God of life and love withdraws himself from you due to you withdrawing from him, what is the alternative to love and life?
  10. Joined
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    01 Oct '12 14:28
    Originally posted by whodey
    A better way to think of it is if the God of life and love withdraws himself from you due to you withdrawing from him, what is the alternative to love and life?
    I don't have the scripture handy but I know that scripture states that God will never leave or forsake you. So I'm not sure if I agree that if we withdraw from him, he withdraws from us.

    I do see your analogy though, an interesting point. It still leads me to the question if he is with us do we always do 'love and life' as you say.

    For me I always want to do good but I cannot truly profess that my thoughts or actions are tailored after 'love'. I do try everyday, and I find that the more I immerse myself into God's word the more 'love' I am able to shine forth.

    Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. (Matthew 5:14 KJV)

    Thanks whodey
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