1. Cosmos
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    26 Jul '05 00:09
    The Spanish Inquisition tortured non-believers in God until they 'confessed' allegiance and converted to Christianity or died.

    The reason for this suffering was only to convert a heretic.

    How could a benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient being have allowed it to happen purely in his (God's) name?
  2. Standard memberColetti
    W.P. Extraordinaire
    State of Franklin
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    26 Jul '05 16:25
    Originally posted by howardgee
    The Spanish Inquisition tortured non-believers in God until they 'confessed' allegiance and converted to Christianity or died.

    The reason for this suffering was only to convert a heretic.

    How could a benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient being have allowed it to happen purely in his (God's) name?
    I guess it would not have been so bad if it was done in the name of Tiny Tim.
  3. Standard memberPhlabibit
    Mystic Meg
    tinyurl.com/3sbbwd4
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    26 Jul '05 16:28
    Originally posted by Coletti
    I guess it would not have been so bad if it was done in the name of Tiny Tim.
    *rim shot

    Bah dump Tshhhh!

    P-
  4. Joined
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    26 Jul '05 16:29
    Originally posted by howardgee
    The Spanish Inquisition tortured non-believers in God until they 'confessed' allegiance and converted to Christianity or died.

    The reason for this suffering was only to convert a heretic.

    How could a benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient being have allowed it to happen purely in his (God's) name?
    I believe it comes down to this: The benevolent God you speak of chose to give us free will and not to interfere with that directly.
    A website that attempts to address something similar: http://www.christianity.co.nz/suffer1.htm
  5. Joined
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    26 Jul '05 16:34
    Originally posted by howardgee
    The Spanish Inquisition tortured non-believers in God until they 'confessed' allegiance and converted to Christianity or died.

    The reason for this suffering was only to convert a heretic.

    How could a benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient being have allowed it to happen purely in his (God's) name?
    Quite evil, good observation. But what is your point? Do you wish to show that a good and powerful God is incompatible with such evil? Or maybe you want a good and powerful God to extinguish such evil. If the latter, maybe He could start with your life. If the former, you've done a poor job of demonstrating your position.
  6. Riding the Atom Bomb
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    26 Jul '05 17:14
    Originally posted by kingdanwa
    Quite evil, good observation. But what is your point? Do you wish to show that a good and powerful God is incompatible with such evil? Or maybe you want a good and powerful God to extinguish such evil. If the latter, maybe He could start with your life. If the former, you've done a poor job of demonstrating your position.
    ouch..................................that gotta hurt
  7. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
    BWA Soldier
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    26 Jul '05 17:15
    Originally posted by dale21
    ouch..................................that gotta hurt
    The horns of a dilemma are often sharp.
  8. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    26 Jul '05 18:21
    Originally posted by kingdanwa
    [b]Do you wish to show that a good and powerful God is incompatible with such evil? Or maybe you want a good and powerful God to extinguish such evil. [b]
    Bbarr made a very lengthy and compelling argument that involved
    this sort of question some months ago.

    In it, he observed that, if we accept that God's over all plan is to
    optimize the greatest good, then we have to concede that every
    single death in the Inquisition was necessary and that even just
    one death less would result in a lesser good
    .

    The other conclusion would be that God is indifferent to suffering, that
    his 'benevolence' includes the acceptence of unnecessary suffering
    which he in his 'omnipotence' is able to prevent.

    I had worked out a bit of a counterargument for Bbarr, but got bogged
    down with work and wasn't convinced of it myself, so I never posted it.
    I'd be interested in hearing reasonable thoughts to his (and howard's)
    thoughts.

    Nemesio
  9. Joined
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    26 Jul '05 18:43
    if we accept that God's over all plan is to
    optimize the greatest good, ...

    The other conclusion would be that God is indifferent to suffering, that
    his 'benevolence' includes the acceptence of unnecessary suffering
    which he in his 'omnipotence' is able to prevent.
    According to the biblical picture of God, on what basis do we assert that his over all plan is to optimize the greatest good? And by what criteria do we evaluate this good? Couldn't we say that the greatest good in history was the sacrificial death of Jesus? God giving himself over to death for sinful, worthless people. This is the greatest good in history.

    As far as God being indifferent to suffering, according to the biblical picture, God is the only one doing anything of value to stop suffering. He's promised an end when all evil will be squelched, and his mercy is the only thing extending the time between now and that end.
  10. An' it harms none...
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    26 Jul '05 18:54
    Ok so your god gave everyone free will? At what point did this happen? At what point did your god stop interfering in the affairs or choices of people?
  11. Joined
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    26 Jul '05 18:58
    At what point did your god stop interfering in the affairs or choices of people?[/b]
    Has He messed up any of your affairs or choices?
  12. An' it harms none...
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    26 Jul '05 19:05
    Originally posted by kingdanwa
    Has He messed up any of your affairs or choices?
    Ahh, the usual christian answering a question with a question avoidance technique.

    Since I dont believe in your god I would say never.
  13. Joined
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    26 Jul '05 19:09
    Originally posted by dags
    Ahh, the usual christian answering a question with a question avoidance technique.

    Since I dont believe in your god I would say never.
    I did not intend to avoid your question with my question, I was simply trying to understand what was behind your question. I just wanted to know where you were coming from.
  14. An' it harms none...
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    26 Jul '05 19:13
    Originally posted by kingdanwa
    I did not intend to avoid your question with my question, I was simply trying to understand what was behind your question. I just wanted to know where you were coming from.
    At what point did she/he stop interfering?
  15. Joined
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    26 Jul '05 19:19
    Originally posted by dags
    At what point did she/he stop interfering?
    Does "interfer" mean to take away your free will? Or are you referring to how God walked with Adam in the garden?
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