26 Jul 05
The Spanish Inquisition tortured non-believers in God until they 'confessed' allegiance and converted to Christianity or died.
The reason for this suffering was only to convert a heretic.
How could a benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient being have allowed it to happen purely in his (God's) name?
26 Jul 05
Originally posted by howardgeeI guess it would not have been so bad if it was done in the name of Tiny Tim.
The Spanish Inquisition tortured non-believers in God until they 'confessed' allegiance and converted to Christianity or died.
The reason for this suffering was only to convert a heretic.
How could a benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient being have allowed it to happen purely in his (God's) name?
26 Jul 05
Originally posted by howardgeeI believe it comes down to this: The benevolent God you speak of chose to give us free will and not to interfere with that directly.
The Spanish Inquisition tortured non-believers in God until they 'confessed' allegiance and converted to Christianity or died.
The reason for this suffering was only to convert a heretic.
How could a benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient being have allowed it to happen purely in his (God's) name?
A website that attempts to address something similar: http://www.christianity.co.nz/suffer1.htm
26 Jul 05
Originally posted by howardgeeQuite evil, good observation. But what is your point? Do you wish to show that a good and powerful God is incompatible with such evil? Or maybe you want a good and powerful God to extinguish such evil. If the latter, maybe He could start with your life. If the former, you've done a poor job of demonstrating your position.
The Spanish Inquisition tortured non-believers in God until they 'confessed' allegiance and converted to Christianity or died.
The reason for this suffering was only to convert a heretic.
How could a benevolent, omnipotent and omniscient being have allowed it to happen purely in his (God's) name?
26 Jul 05
Originally posted by kingdanwaouch..................................that gotta hurt
Quite evil, good observation. But what is your point? Do you wish to show that a good and powerful God is incompatible with such evil? Or maybe you want a good and powerful God to extinguish such evil. If the latter, maybe He could start with your life. If the former, you've done a poor job of demonstrating your position.
26 Jul 05
Originally posted by kingdanwaBbarr made a very lengthy and compelling argument that involved
[b]Do you wish to show that a good and powerful God is incompatible with such evil? Or maybe you want a good and powerful God to extinguish such evil. [b]
this sort of question some months ago.
In it, he observed that, if we accept that God's over all plan is to
optimize the greatest good, then we have to concede that every
single death in the Inquisition was necessary and that even just
one death less would result in a lesser good.
The other conclusion would be that God is indifferent to suffering, that
his 'benevolence' includes the acceptence of unnecessary suffering
which he in his 'omnipotence' is able to prevent.
I had worked out a bit of a counterargument for Bbarr, but got bogged
down with work and wasn't convinced of it myself, so I never posted it.
I'd be interested in hearing reasonable thoughts to his (and howard's)
thoughts.
Nemesio
26 Jul 05
if we accept that God's over all plan is toAccording to the biblical picture of God, on what basis do we assert that his over all plan is to optimize the greatest good? And by what criteria do we evaluate this good? Couldn't we say that the greatest good in history was the sacrificial death of Jesus? God giving himself over to death for sinful, worthless people. This is the greatest good in history.
optimize the greatest good, ...
The other conclusion would be that God is indifferent to suffering, that
his 'benevolence' includes the acceptence of unnecessary suffering
which he in his 'omnipotence' is able to prevent.
As far as God being indifferent to suffering, according to the biblical picture, God is the only one doing anything of value to stop suffering. He's promised an end when all evil will be squelched, and his mercy is the only thing extending the time between now and that end.
26 Jul 05
Originally posted by dagsI did not intend to avoid your question with my question, I was simply trying to understand what was behind your question. I just wanted to know where you were coming from.
Ahh, the usual christian answering a question with a question avoidance technique.
Since I dont believe in your god I would say never.