1. Donationbuckky
    Filthy sinner
    Outskirts of bliss
    Joined
    24 Sep '02
    Moves
    96652
    26 Feb '10 16:50
    When I read the Bible it seems very hard to understand , and I loose interest real quick. I can't be alone in this reaction to the" Word of God ". I think it's time we receive a new message from God that people like myself can get into. The Bible is to weighed down with primitive ideas, and stories that can't be taken seriously. If the average Joe needs to know the Truth about things then it must be understood by the common mind. Sometimes I get the idea you need a PHD in religion to peel back the seemingly insane things about the Bible, and understand the actual meaning. From where I stand the Christian Bible is a pile of jibberish. I need clarity not secret meanings that only a few can comprehend.
  2. Joined
    23 Nov '09
    Moves
    94140
    26 Feb '10 17:07
    Just smoke some marijuana and you'll understand everything there is to understand about the new testament.
  3. Donationbuckky
    Filthy sinner
    Outskirts of bliss
    Joined
    24 Sep '02
    Moves
    96652
    26 Feb '10 17:12
    Originally posted by Kegge
    Just smoke some marijuana and you'll understand everything there is to understand about the new testament.
    I know Revelation can get very trippy with the right alteration.
  4. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    26 Feb '10 18:33
    Originally posted by buckky
    When I read the Bible it seems very hard to understand , and I loose interest real quick. I can't be alone in this reaction to the" Word of God ". I think it's time we receive a new message from God that people like myself can get into. The Bible is to weighed down with primitive ideas, and stories that can't be taken seriously. If the average Joe needs to kn ...[text shortened]... is a pile of jibberish. I need clarity not secret meanings that only a few can comprehend.
    Do you want to be a Bible scholar or a Christian?
    A Christian? - then its simple. Read the words of Christ in the New Testament. The words of Christ are the roadmap to salvation. His teachings are really very simple.
  5. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    26187
    26 Feb '10 18:40
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Do you want to be a Bible scholar or a Christian?
    A Christian? - then its simple. Read the words of Christ in the New Testament. The words of Christ are the roadmap to salvation. His teachings are really very simple.
    If he was a bible scholar then he'd know that Jesus never said half the words in the bible that are attributed to him.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    26 Feb '10 18:49
    Originally posted by rwingett
    If he was a bible scholar then he'd know that Jesus never said half the words in the bible that are attributed to him.
    Which half?
  7. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    26187
    26 Feb '10 19:54
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Which half?
    There's no way to know for sure, but the Jesus Seminar gives some estimates

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar#Sayings_of_Jesus

    They estimate the "Turn the other cheek" saying from Mt 5:39 and Lk6:29 as having a 92% probability of being authentic. It goes down from there.

    You may not agree with their methodology, or dispute the authenticity of various passages, but the fact remains that it is a widespread opinion among biblical scholars that Jesus did not say everything attributed to him in the bible. Bart Ehrman is another. His book Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why deals with this topic.
  8. Joined
    24 Apr '09
    Moves
    3987
    26 Feb '10 20:44
    Originally posted by rwingett
    There's no way to know for sure, but the Jesus Seminar gives some estimates

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar#Sayings_of_Jesus

    They estimate the "Turn the other cheek" saying from Mt 5:39 and Lk6:29 as having a 92% probability of being authentic. It goes down from there.

    You may not agree with their methodology, or dispute the authenticit ...[text shortened]... i]Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why[/i] deals with this topic.
    If you like Bart Ehrman other books of his are "Lost Christianities" and Peter, Paul, % Mary Magdalene: also a vidio caled "After the New Testament"
  9. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    26 Feb '10 21:14
    Originally posted by rwingett
    There's no way to know for sure, but the Jesus Seminar gives some estimates

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar#Sayings_of_Jesus

    They estimate the "Turn the other cheek" saying from Mt 5:39 and Lk6:29 as having a 92% probability of being authentic. It goes down from there.

    You may not agree with their methodology, or dispute the authenticit ...[text shortened]... i]Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why[/i] deals with this topic.
    Im not going to waste my time reading up on that but I can guarantee one thing. There is no way in hell that you can assign any meaningful probability to the words of Christ being accurate, 2000 years after he allegedly said them.

    Here are two probabilities worth remembering though.
    100% - thats the probability that you can benefit from what Christ taught.
    0% - thats the probability that you will get salvation if you deny the existence of Christ (Im not saying you do).

    I dont think there are any religions who deny that Christ existed. Hindus, Muslims believed that he either a great prophet and/or Messiah. The judgment of Christ is for all mankind, all of whom will be judged according to their works.
  10. Illinois
    Joined
    20 Mar '07
    Moves
    6266
    26 Feb '10 21:18
    Originally posted by rwingett
    There's no way to know for sure, but the Jesus Seminar gives some estimates

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar#Sayings_of_Jesus

    They estimate the "Turn the other cheek" saying from Mt 5:39 and Lk6:29 as having a 92% probability of being authentic. It goes down from there.

    You may not agree with their methodology, or dispute the authenticit ...[text shortened]... i]Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why[/i] deals with this topic.
    You may not agree with their methodology, or dispute the authenticity of various passages, but the fact remains that it is a widespread opinion among biblical scholars that Jesus did not say everything attributed to him in the bible.


    It may be a widespread opinion that Jesus did not say everything attributed to him in the NT among the scholars who are part of or sympathetic to the Jesus Seminar, but all those scholars taken together are, in the context of biblical scholars in general, a small minority.
  11. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    26187
    26 Feb '10 21:28
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Im not going to waste my time reading up on that but I can guarantee one thing. There is no way in hell that you can assign any meaningful probability to the words of Christ being accurate, 2000 years after he allegedly said them.

    Here are two probabilities worth remembering though.
    100% - thats the probability that you can benefit from what Christ taug ...[text shortened]... The judgment of Christ is for all mankind, all of whom will be judged according to their works.
    Do you honestly believe that everything in the bible is a verbatim transcript of what Jesus said? You don't think any of it was tweaked, altered or fabricated from the time he died to the time the gospels were written, some decades later? All these various quotes, stories and recollections were passed along orally for 30 years or more and it all came to be verbatim transcript of what Jesus said? I don't think so.

    I never claimed that Jesus never existed. I think it is probable that he did, in some form. I don't think he was divine, or had a virgin birth, or was resurrected from the dead. He probably said many things attributed to him in the bible, but not all of it. Not by a long shot.
  12. Standard memberRajk999
    Enjoying
    On the Beach
    Joined
    04 Apr '04
    Moves
    170571
    26 Feb '10 21:423 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Do you honestly believe that everything in the bible is a verbatim transcript of what Jesus said? You don't think any of it was tweaked, altered or fabricated from the time he died to the time the gospels were written, some decades later? All these various quotes, stories and recollections were passed along orally for 30 years or more and it all came to be bably said many things attributed to him in the bible, but not all of it. Not by a long shot.
    Tweaking, altering, modifying, summarising, changing, even fabricating ? ... YES

    To the point where the alleged words of Christ become meaningless? NO.

    Edit: 30 years from now when Im 80 and by brain is old and weak, Im sure I can give my grandkids a pretty acccurate idea of what Rwingett on RHP said and believed in without even repeating what you said verbatim. Its not that hard. Imagine if I was inspired by God to write!
  13. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    26187
    26 Feb '10 22:06
    Originally posted by Thomas Lavery
    If you like Bart Ehrman other books of his are "Lost Christianities" and Peter, Paul, % Mary Magdalene: also a vidio caled "After the New Testament"
    Ehrman is one of my favorites. I've read:

    Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not Make It into the New Testament
    Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew
    Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why
    God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question – Why We Suffer
    Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them)

    I've also listened to a couple of sets of audio tapes by him.
  14. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
    09 Sep '01
    Moves
    26187
    26 Feb '10 22:13
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Tweaking, altering, modifying, summarising, changing, even fabricating ? ... YES

    To the point where the alleged words of Christ become meaningless? NO.

    Edit: 30 years from now when Im 80 and by brain is old and weak, Im sure I can give my grandkids a pretty acccurate idea of what Rwingett on RHP said and believed in without even repeating what you said verbatim. Its not that hard. Imagine if I was inspired by God to write!
    I never said that what Jesus allegedly said is meaningless. My point is that he didn't say everything attributed to him in the bible. There is still some significant meaning to be gleaned from his teachings, whether we interpret them as the literal truth or not. I may still profit from reading Aesop's fables, for example, even if they are not true stories.

    I do not think you could give an accurate idea of what I said 30 years from now. I don't think you could do it even now.
  15. Account suspended
    Joined
    26 Aug '07
    Moves
    38239
    26 Feb '10 23:534 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Ehrman is one of my favorites. I've read:

    Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not Make It into the New Testament
    Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew
    Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why
    God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question – Why We Suffer
    Jesus, Interr ...[text shortened]... y We Don't Know About Them)

    I've also listened to a couple of sets of audio tapes by him.
    i always find these types of things quite distasteful, why? they focus on what is not contained in scripture, rather than what is. Anyone who, after reading the bible, and who cannot answer why God permits suffering, is hardly likely to be able to tell you anything else that is trustworthy in the context of biblical understanding. Any eight year old of Jehovahs Witness could answer that question, which i relate, not through egotism, just to put it in perspective. One needs Gods spirit to understand the Bible, denying the divine element is hardly conducive to getting it. Yes God really has hidden these things from so called, 'wise and intellectual', men, yet revealed them to babes and it is a matter of wonderment in our eyes.
Back to Top