When I read the Bible it seems very hard to understand , and I loose interest real quick. I can't be alone in this reaction to the" Word of God ". I think it's time we receive a new message from God that people like myself can get into. The Bible is to weighed down with primitive ideas, and stories that can't be taken seriously. If the average Joe needs to know the Truth about things then it must be understood by the common mind. Sometimes I get the idea you need a PHD in religion to peel back the seemingly insane things about the Bible, and understand the actual meaning. From where I stand the Christian Bible is a pile of jibberish. I need clarity not secret meanings that only a few can comprehend.
Originally posted by buckky When I read the Bible it seems very hard to understand , and I loose interest real quick. I can't be alone in this reaction to the" Word of God ". I think it's time we receive a new message from God that people like myself can get into. The Bible is to weighed down with primitive ideas, and stories that can't be taken seriously. If the average Joe needs to kn ...[text shortened]... is a pile of jibberish. I need clarity not secret meanings that only a few can comprehend.
Do you want to be a Bible scholar or a Christian?
A Christian? - then its simple. Read the words of Christ in the New Testament. The words of Christ are the roadmap to salvation. His teachings are really very simple.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Do you want to be a Bible scholar or a Christian?
A Christian? - then its simple. Read the words of Christ in the New Testament. The words of Christ are the roadmap to salvation. His teachings are really very simple.
If he was a bible scholar then he'd know that Jesus never said half the words in the bible that are attributed to him.
They estimate the "Turn the other cheek" saying from Mt 5:39 and Lk6:29 as having a 92% probability of being authentic. It goes down from there.
You may not agree with their methodology, or dispute the authenticity of various passages, but the fact remains that it is a widespread opinion among biblical scholars that Jesus did not say everything attributed to him in the bible. Bart Ehrman is another. His book Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why deals with this topic.
They estimate the "Turn the other cheek" saying from Mt 5:39 and Lk6:29 as having a 92% probability of being authentic. It goes down from there.
You may not agree with their methodology, or dispute the authenticit ...[text shortened]... i]Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why[/i] deals with this topic.
If you like Bart Ehrman other books of his are "Lost Christianities" and Peter, Paul, % Mary Magdalene: also a vidio caled "After the New Testament"
They estimate the "Turn the other cheek" saying from Mt 5:39 and Lk6:29 as having a 92% probability of being authentic. It goes down from there.
You may not agree with their methodology, or dispute the authenticit ...[text shortened]... i]Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why[/i] deals with this topic.
Im not going to waste my time reading up on that but I can guarantee one thing. There is no way in hell that you can assign any meaningful probability to the words of Christ being accurate, 2000 years after he allegedly said them.
Here are two probabilities worth remembering though.
100% - thats the probability that you can benefit from what Christ taught.
0% - thats the probability that you will get salvation if you deny the existence of Christ (Im not saying you do).
I dont think there are any religions who deny that Christ existed. Hindus, Muslims believed that he either a great prophet and/or Messiah. The judgment of Christ is for all mankind, all of whom will be judged according to their works.
They estimate the "Turn the other cheek" saying from Mt 5:39 and Lk6:29 as having a 92% probability of being authentic. It goes down from there.
You may not agree with their methodology, or dispute the authenticit ...[text shortened]... i]Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why[/i] deals with this topic.
You may not agree with their methodology, or dispute the authenticity of various passages, but the fact remains that it is a widespread opinion among biblical scholars that Jesus did not say everything attributed to him in the bible.
It may be a widespread opinion that Jesus did not say everything attributed to him in the NT among the scholars who are part of or sympathetic to the Jesus Seminar, but all those scholars taken together are, in the context of biblical scholars in general, a small minority.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Im not going to waste my time reading up on that but I can guarantee one thing. There is no way in hell that you can assign any meaningful probability to the words of Christ being accurate, 2000 years after he allegedly said them.
Here are two probabilities worth remembering though.
100% - thats the probability that you can benefit from what Christ taug ...[text shortened]... The judgment of Christ is for all mankind, all of whom will be judged according to their works.
Do you honestly believe that everything in the bible is a verbatim transcript of what Jesus said? You don't think any of it was tweaked, altered or fabricated from the time he died to the time the gospels were written, some decades later? All these various quotes, stories and recollections were passed along orally for 30 years or more and it all came to be verbatim transcript of what Jesus said? I don't think so.
I never claimed that Jesus never existed. I think it is probable that he did, in some form. I don't think he was divine, or had a virgin birth, or was resurrected from the dead. He probably said many things attributed to him in the bible, but not all of it. Not by a long shot.
Originally posted by rwingett Do you honestly believe that everything in the bible is a verbatim transcript of what Jesus said? You don't think any of it was tweaked, altered or fabricated from the time he died to the time the gospels were written, some decades later? All these various quotes, stories and recollections were passed along orally for 30 years or more and it all came to be bably said many things attributed to him in the bible, but not all of it. Not by a long shot.
Tweaking, altering, modifying, summarising, changing, even fabricating ? ... YES
To the point where the alleged words of Christ become meaningless? NO.
Edit: 30 years from now when Im 80 and by brain is old and weak, Im sure I can give my grandkids a pretty acccurate idea of what Rwingett on RHP said and believed in without even repeating what you said verbatim. Its not that hard. Imagine if I was inspired by God to write!
Originally posted by Thomas Lavery If you like Bart Ehrman other books of his are "Lost Christianities" and Peter, Paul, % Mary Magdalene: also a vidio caled "After the New Testament"
Ehrman is one of my favorites. I've read:
Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not Make It into the New Testament
Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew
Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why
God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question – Why We Suffer
Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them)
I've also listened to a couple of sets of audio tapes by him.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Tweaking, altering, modifying, summarising, changing, even fabricating ? ... YES
To the point where the alleged words of Christ become meaningless? NO.
Edit: 30 years from now when Im 80 and by brain is old and weak, Im sure I can give my grandkids a pretty acccurate idea of what Rwingett on RHP said and believed in without even repeating what you said verbatim. Its not that hard. Imagine if I was inspired by God to write!
I never said that what Jesus allegedly said is meaningless. My point is that he didn't say everything attributed to him in the bible. There is still some significant meaning to be gleaned from his teachings, whether we interpret them as the literal truth or not. I may still profit from reading Aesop's fables, for example, even if they are not true stories.
I do not think you could give an accurate idea of what I said 30 years from now. I don't think you could do it even now.
Originally posted by rwingett Ehrman is one of my favorites. I've read:
Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not Make It into the New Testament
Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew
Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why
God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question – Why We Suffer
Jesus, Interr ...[text shortened]... y We Don't Know About Them)
I've also listened to a couple of sets of audio tapes by him.
i always find these types of things quite distasteful, why? they focus on what is not contained in scripture, rather than what is. Anyone who, after reading the bible, and who cannot answer why God permits suffering, is hardly likely to be able to tell you anything else that is trustworthy in the context of biblical understanding. Any eight year old of Jehovahs Witness could answer that question, which i relate, not through egotism, just to put it in perspective. One needs Gods spirit to understand the Bible, denying the divine element is hardly conducive to getting it. Yes God really has hidden these things from so called, 'wise and intellectual', men, yet revealed them to babes and it is a matter of wonderment in our eyes.
A new New Testament needed
26 Feb '10 16:50
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